Pokémon Sword & Shield (Crown Tundra Out Now - Play It Quick Before It Votes For Independence)

Anything to do with games at all.

What starter will you pick?

Grookey
25
35%
Scorbunny
24
34%
Sobble
22
31%
 
Total votes: 71
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HaruKazuhira
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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by HaruKazuhira » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:17 pm

Met wrote:Hearing some concerning things coming out of an early stream of this. I think the most jarring is that catching Pokémon is limited to what badges you have.

Even without the Pokedex shenanigans, there are some baffling choices made here.


I dunno, this kinda seems interesting to me. Gives that old school RPG feel of coming back later in the game to take on stronger mon. Assuming that's how it works.

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Pancake » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:20 pm

I have no problem with moves and Pokémon being removed, it had to happen at some point and it really was starting to get a bit ridiculous. The competitive scene could use a shake up as well. I just hope they have focused on making the world interesting and adding some new features.

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Robbo-92 » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:43 pm

Anyone know when the review embargo is up for this? Hoping there’ll be a few reviews knocking around pre launch.

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Herdanos » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:53 pm

Pancake wrote:I have no problem with moves and Pokémon being removed, it had to happen at some point and it really was starting to get a bit ridiculous. The competitive scene could use a shake up as well. I just hope they have focused on making the world interesting and adding some new features.

I downloaded the demo for Let's Go to get in the Pokemon mood (I'd played the demo when it came out but I decided it wasn't for me) and it served as a great example of why they're doing the right thing. The battle move animations were absolutely pathetic - it was akin to Pokemon Stadium on the N64. I'm all for fewer Pokemon and fewer moves if it means they're going to take the time to properly animate each one (which judging from what we've seen so far, they are doing).

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Met » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:50 pm

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:
Pancake wrote:I have no problem with moves and Pokémon being removed, it had to happen at some point and it really was starting to get a bit ridiculous. The competitive scene could use a shake up as well. I just hope they have focused on making the world interesting and adding some new features.

I downloaded the demo for Let's Go to get in the Pokemon mood (I'd played the demo when it came out but I decided it wasn't for me) and it served as a great example of why they're doing the right thing. The battle move animations were absolutely pathetic - it was akin to Pokemon Stadium on the N64. I'm all for fewer Pokemon and fewer moves if it means they're going to take the time to properly animate each one (which judging from what we've seen so far, they are doing).


It was a worthwhile sacrifice.

Spoilers for a scene that's probably a little later in the game. But you can really see all the work that went into the animations.

But it's not like the old pokemon just use the same animations and upscaled models from the previous games, is it?

Oh...*

It's fine to be fine with a smaller roster if that's how you fall, but animation isn't the reason for it.

*Disclaimer: that comparison video is from a couple months back, so it's possible they DID redo all the animations, but c'mon, this is GF: they're not going to do that.

Edit: Blaziken died for this

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Jezo » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:07 am

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:
Pancake wrote:I have no problem with moves and Pokémon being removed, it had to happen at some point and it really was starting to get a bit ridiculous. The competitive scene could use a shake up as well. I just hope they have focused on making the world interesting and adding some new features.

I downloaded the demo for Let's Go to get in the Pokemon mood (I'd played the demo when it came out but I decided it wasn't for me) and it served as a great example of why they're doing the right thing. The battle move animations were absolutely pathetic - it was akin to Pokemon Stadium on the N64. I'm all for fewer Pokemon and fewer moves if it means they're going to take the time to properly animate each one (which judging from what we've seen so far, they are doing).

Didn't know it was Opposite Day today


Holy strawberry floating gooseberry fool this is actually the best strawberry floating thing wow. The whole post is probably one of the best on the forum.

Ok, ok, here's a question guys. Which would you prefer? As it is now, OR, they actually animate him, but the game is cut down to 300 pokemon?

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Herdanos » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:12 pm


The point you're making with your post here is... what? That the animations are bad? Sure, the legendary wolf Pokemon doesn't look particularly great when they turn round there. But how enjoyable these games turn out to be won't really be that dependant on their visuals. Yes, nicer visuals would be nicer. But if your whole argument about these games being a disappointment is based on that clip, you're clutching at straws, desperate not to like the game based on any little thing you can find to criticise it for.

I appreciate that for someone who's made the argument that they've spent less time adding old Pokemon so as to spend more time working on the animations, to then say they're not bothered about graphics, might seem like I'm flip-flopping. Let me try and explain my point of view.

Pokemon isn't about graphics and never has been, but there are reasonable expectations to have now that we're on a home console. As an example:



Absolutely, that's shoddy, and if that ends up being the experience we have in the finished game, then this will be a disappointing product. But that's a video from before release, so it's pointless to judge the game on it.

There are some aspects of the game that will be improved by better visuals, and some that would be a nice-to-have, but not a must-have. The big dog's turning circle isn't going to wreck my enjoyment of the game. However, if two battling Pokemon stand at opposite ends of a battlefield, and send blandly coloured icons toward one another, it'll be a missed opportunity IMO. The move to Switch necessitates improvements in the battle system animations - for example, if someone uses Fire Blast, I want to see a blast of fire. I want to see a Low Kick, a Surf, a Hyper Beam, a Swords Dance. And I want to see the relevant Pokemon look like they're actually performing, and reacting to, these moves, not just defaulting to a standard "performs move" animation (like in Pokemon Stadium, for example!)

So seeing footage of Morpeko perform his moves in the trailers gives me hope that this is what they're doing. And I totally understand that to try and do this, for nearly a thousand Pokemon, and for thousands of movesets and combinations, is a massive amount of work to do. So I'm OK with them focusing on a subset of Pokemon, and making them look decent.

I don't care much for Gigamaxing, I'm not sure I see the point, but hearing the developers talk about it, makes me similarly hopeful, as it sounds like their motivations for moving in this direction were because standard battling didn't really show off the console's abilities. Which makes me suspect that they know that simply having two battling Pokemon stand at opposite ends of a battlefield, sending blandly coloured icons toward one another, won't wash.

There are probably other factors at play here that make me much less likely to be a Dexiteer. I've never sought to "catch 'em all" in any previous game. And the last series game I played was Heart Gold, meaning there's plenty of new Pokemon in this new game for me. But even so... I find it hard to empathise with anyone criticising the game at this point.

The expectation that all the previous Pokemon should be in the game, because... [scene missing], is outright entitlement, and it stinks. And it's this sense of misplaced outrage that is fuelling all subsequent criticisms of the game, because the game isn't out yet. So criticising the way it looks, the way it plays, the volume of features, etc. is all conjecture. And it comes across as childish, spoilt, entitled conjecture, from a fanbase that appears to have unilaterally decided it has been irrevocably slighted and therefore dislikes this game.

We don't even know that there are only 400 Pokemon. They've confirmed Mew will be in it, for one thing, and he's not on the leaked list of 400. I'm expecting there'll be a post-game extended dex. I also expect them to add support for the rest of the "missing" Pokemon over time. (Though I appreciate that both of these things are conjecture as well!) But I wouldn't be bothered if they didn't; I'd be bothered if it's a bad game. But I'm looking forward to finding out, and I'm hopeful that it isn't.

And Jezo... are you saying the animations in Pokemon Stadium were better?

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Frank » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:14 pm

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:The battle move animations were absolutely pathetic


twitter.com/chris_1942/status/1069695740346155008


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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Herdanos » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:19 pm

Jezo wrote:

Holy strawberry floating gooseberry fool this is actually the best strawberry floating thing wow. The whole post is probably one of the best on the forum.

Ok, ok, here's a question guys. Which would you prefer? As it is now, OR, they actually animate him, but the game is cut down to 300 pokemon?


Your incredible sweary reaction ( :lol: ) aside, I've put the main part in bold. Are you aware just how much you're proving my point:
Dannie Lennox_ wrote:childish, spoilt, entitled


I mean, I understand that that particular character model doesn't look as good as it could or even should, but to suggest it isn't "actually animated"... :fp:

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by ITSMILNER » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:08 pm

Robbo-92 wrote:Anyone know when the review embargo is up for this? Hoping there’ll be a few reviews knocking around pre launch.


2pm today I believe

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Pedz » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:20 pm

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:


Are you saying that scaling down in the amount of Pokemon in S&S is good due to the animations being shite in Let's go? Let's go only has the 151 original Pokemon with their Alolan forms and The Metang things. Doesn't it show that having less Pokemon didn't help?

ORRRRR, am have I read a post wrong?

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by OrangeRKN » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:24 pm

Jezo wrote:Which would you prefer? As it is now, OR, they actually animate him, but the game is cut down to 300 pokemon?


Please don't bring me into this

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by That » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:37 pm

it would be less difficult to properly animate all the pokemon if they all looked like animals

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Met » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:04 pm

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:

The point you're making with your post here is... what? That the animations are bad? Sure, the legendary wolf Pokemon doesn't look particularly great when they turn round there. But how enjoyable these games turn out to be won't really be that dependant on their visuals. Yes, nicer visuals would be nicer. But if your whole argument about these games being a disappointment is based on that clip, you're clutching at straws, desperate not to like the game based on any little thing you can find to criticise it for.


The problem is that the reason they gave for cutting features is so they could focus on animations. Which they blatantly haven't. Don't promise one thing then give me something completely different.

Dannie Lennox_ wrote: I appreciate that for someone who's made the argument that they've spent less time adding old Pokemon so as to spend more time working on the animations, to then say they're not bothered about graphics, might seem like I'm flip-flopping. Let me try and explain my point of view.

Pokemon isn't about graphics and never has been, but there are reasonable expectations to have now that we're on a home console. As an example:



Absolutely, that's shoddy, and if that ends up being the experience we have in the finished game, then this will be a disappointing product. But that's a video from before release, so it's pointless to judge the game on it.

There are some aspects of the game that will be improved by better visuals, and some that would be a nice-to-have, but not a must-have. The big dog's turning circle isn't going to wreck my enjoyment of the game. However, if two battling Pokemon stand at opposite ends of a battlefield, and send blandly coloured icons toward one another, it'll be a missed opportunity IMO.


Sorry to disappoint, I guess? Everything I've seen from early streams seems to be exactly the same as before.

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:The move to Switch necessitates improvements in the battle system animations - for example, if someone uses Fire Blast, I want to see a blast of fire. I want to see a Low Kick, a Surf, a Hyper Beam, a Swords Dance. And I want to see the relevant Pokemon look like they're actually performing, and reacting to, these moves, not just defaulting to a standard "performs move" animation (like in Pokemon Stadium, for example!)

So seeing footage of Morpeko perform his moves in the trailers gives me hope that this is what they're doing. And I totally understand that to try and do this, for nearly a thousand Pokemon, and for thousands of movesets and combinations, is a massive amount of work to do. So I'm OK with them focusing on a subset of Pokemon, and making them look decent.


But what if they don't look any better?

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:I don't care much for Gigamaxing, I'm not sure I see the point, but hearing the developers talk about it, makes me similarly hopeful, as it sounds like their motivations for moving in this direction were because standard battling didn't really show off the console's abilities. Which makes me suspect that they know that simply having two battling Pokemon stand at opposite ends of a battlefield, sending blandly coloured icons toward one another, won't wash.

There are probably other factors at play here that make me much less likely to be a Dexiteer. I've never sought to "catch 'em all" in any previous game. And the last series game I played was Heart Gold, meaning there's plenty of new Pokemon in this new game for me. But even so... I find it hard to empathise with anyone criticising the game at this point.


Yeah, damn those people expecting an expansion rather than regression in their sequel that's coming from handheld to home console.

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:The expectation that all the previous Pokemon should be in the game, because... [scene missing], is outright entitlement, and it stinks. And it's this sense of misplaced outrage that is fuelling all subsequent criticisms of the game, because the game isn't out yet. So criticising the way it looks, the way it plays, the volume of features, etc. is all conjecture. And it comes across as childish, spoilt, entitled conjecture, from a fanbase that appears to have unilaterally decided it has been irrevocably slighted and therefore dislikes this game.


The game isn't out officially, yeah, but do you really think GF are going to update everything in the 3 days until launch? Those streams are still from the full game release.

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:We don't even know that there are only 400 Pokemon. They've confirmed Mew will be in it, for one thing, and he's not on the leaked list of 400. I'm expecting there'll be a post-game extended dex. I also expect them to add support for the rest of the "missing" Pokemon over time. (Though I appreciate that both of these things are conjecture as well!) But I wouldn't be bothered if they didn't; I'd be bothered if it's a bad game. But I'm looking forward to finding out, and I'm hopeful that it isn't.


The full game is in the wild, dataminers have it. We know everything about the game down to Pokémon location and encounter rates. It's 435 pokemon, including those not in the Dex, but with data in the game. Mew is present there.

Dannie Lennox_ wrote:And Jezo... are you saying the animations in Pokemon Stadium were better?


They were more varied and interesting, at least, but that is a bit of an unfair comparison to make one to one.


Overall, it's not just the restricted Dex, the loss of moves (pursuit being the most baffling because that had very legitimate and important tactical benefits), the shoddy optimisation, the reuse of animations and models, the cutting of features, etc

It's how they all meld together into excuses and lies. "We can't have these Pokémon because animating them is hard. Btw we're not making new animations lol".

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Robbo-92 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:04 pm

ITSMILNER wrote:
Robbo-92 wrote:Anyone know when the review embargo is up for this? Hoping there’ll be a few reviews knocking around pre launch.


2pm today I believe


Nice, I’ll have something to read this afternoon then. :lol:

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Tomous » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:10 pm

Embargo is tomorrow not today.

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Met » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Other baffling choices include Basic options like volume control being locked behind a key item from an unmarked NPC

But I'm just entitled expecting basic options.

And it's a good thing we don't have to animate Venomoth so we can focus on good battle arenas instead.

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Robbo-92 » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:17 pm

Tomous wrote:Embargo is tomorrow not today.


:cry:

Oh well something to read on my lunch at work then!

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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by Tomous » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:19 pm


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PostRe: Pokémon Sword & Shield (15th November) (leeks abound)
by OrangeRKN » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:22 pm



I understand this might be bad for accessibility reasons maybe but I love things like this. If you told me about the feature I'd guess it was from Death Stranding way before Pokemon :lol:

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