Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ

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Benzin
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Benzin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:32 am

What's the difference between blaming PewDiePie here to the old excuses of violent video games or death metal, etc?

I mean I highly doubt in amongst any of the triggered stuff he's actually hoping for this sort of thing to happen. It's just some dick taking nonsense in such a fashion that's he's decided to commit an atrocity (similar could be said of hardline religious nutters) in the name of someone who I would presume actually doesn't want such a thing done (whether for moral or personal reasons).

That he's claimed this because if a fear of immigration whilst emigrating over to New Zealand shows that a person's delusional nature is the real danger. Pointing the blame game towards people who had nothing to actually do with it has always confused me, whether it be music, gaming or a YouTube person.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Rex Kramer » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:32 am

Photek wrote:3:21 in and 2 thoughts:

1 - Some good points (I was hoping for some actual clips of PDP tho)

2 - This bomber dude is very hard to listen to, he'd be better off not coming across like a complete twat, he undermines his good points with pointless personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything.

I'll continue.

Why?

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That
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by That » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:41 am

Well, I'm not saying Pewdiepie - or Candace Owens, who the terrorist was apparently also a fan of - put the gun in his hands and told him who to shoot. What I'm trying to say is that they're the "moderate" leaning element of an organised political movement which, at the more extreme end, openly cultivates and encourages these insane, disgusting white supremacists.

"Video games!!!" or "rock music!!!" are just forms of media. The equivalent would be blaming "YouTube videos!!!". I'm not doing that - nor am I actually blaming any individual other than the shooter - I'm just pointing out how the political movement of which Pewdiepie is a part can lead to radicalisation and ultimately events like this one.

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PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Sandy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:47 am

Photek wrote:
Tineash wrote:PDP is the soft edge of the right-wing online radicalisation of young white men.

I don't want to argue, but this line here is pure bollocks.


It's only bollocks if every human was the same. Just because PDP might not have that effect on you doesn't mean his influence won't lead the easily lead and manipulated towards more extreme view points and actions.

Anyone that spouts hatred for minority groups; gays, muslims, trans, jews, blacks etc and has a platform helps to dehumanise those groups in the eyes of some people. The second you do that you've made it easier for someone to commit an act like New Zealand.

You can just keep saying over and over that people like PDP never actively told people to go out and murder people. He just told/helped them to hate those people and then expected them to do nothing about it? Load of gooseberry fool. He's resonsible along with anyone else like him that treats certain areas of society as less than human and then spreads this message to millions of mouth breathers.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Preezy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:49 am

I do think though that you need a big dose of mental illness to cross the line from embedding yourself into the alt-right mindset and actually picking up an assault rifle and shooting people. That's not to say the rhetoric isn't a factor, but the mental state of the person is the largest factor in this whole sorry mess.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Nibble » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:51 am

"Pewds"

So adorable.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tafdolphin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:51 am

Karl wrote: The equivalent would be blaming "YouTube videos!!!". I'm not doing that - nor am I actually blaming any individual other than the shooter - I'm just pointing out how the political movement of which Pewdiepie is a part can lead to radicalisation and ultimately events like this one.


Precisely. One can say the shooter was influenced by something, or at the very least found in a figure like PDP something to latch his awful beliefs onto, without applying direct blame.

Preezy wrote:I do think though that you need a big dose of mental illness to cross the line from embedding yourself into the alt-right mindset and actually picking up an assault rifle and shooting people. That's not to say the rhetoric isn't a factor, but the mental state of the person is the largest factor in this whole sorry mess.


Firstly, mental illness is often held up as an exculpatory factor in situations like these. We do not know the shooter had any sort of mental illness and the immediate suggestion that this is the 'primary' cause does a huge disservice to those people living with mental health issues.

Secondly, beliefs do not form in a vacuum. The will to go out and act in this manner does not pop into a person's head fully formed. The disgusting views this man held, that his country was being invaded by Muslims, that The Great Replacement was real, come from conspiracy peddlers and misinformation plied through YouTube channels and personalities like Candace Owens.

No one factor can be said to be 'the largest' here as each factor is itself a consequence of another.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by That » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:56 am

Tafdolphin wrote:
Karl wrote: The equivalent would be blaming "YouTube videos!!!". I'm not doing that - nor am I actually blaming any individual other than the shooter - I'm just pointing out how the political movement of which Pewdiepie is a part can lead to radicalisation and ultimately events like this one.


Precisely. One can say the shooter was influenced by something, or at the very least found in a figure like PDP something to latch his awful beliefs onto, without applying direct blame.


Aye. And if Pewdiepie were really hapless and unaware in this, he'd now be looking at who he's popular with and thinking, oh actually, maybe edgy racist humour isn't harmless, maybe the SJWs aren't the problem, maybe casually giving shout-outs to Nazis does encourage my fans to engage with those repugnant beliefs. The Pewdiepie videos of tomorrow would look very different. But Pewdiepie knows what he's doing and how his users engage with the alt-right, so there'll be some crocodile tears and no meaningful changes to his content.

He's not big-R Responsible for this, but his content is an important and deliberate part of that political engine, and for that part he's certainly responsible.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by PES Fan » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:03 am

Someone going around shooting people isn’t his fault.

But he’s never denounced or distanced himself from these groups. He follows some very shady people on Twitter also. He gives a platform to people like Ben Shapiro.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Moggy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:04 am

Preezy wrote:I do think though that you need a big dose of mental illness to cross the line from embedding yourself into the alt-right mindset and actually picking up an assault rifle and shooting people. That's not to say the rhetoric isn't a factor, but the mental state of the person is the largest factor in this whole sorry mess.


That’s not always true though. Look at some of the utter atrocities in recent history, from the Nazis to the lynching of Black Americans. Was every Nazi mentally ill? All of the soldiers and camp guards? Or were they radicalised by an extreme ideology? Were the gangs of white racists that lynch Black people just mentally ill, or were they the symptom of centuries of dehumanisation of non-white people?

Picking up a gun and shooting people is crazy in our eyes, but that doesn’t mean the person is actually mentally ill. Some people are radicalised and some people are just banana splits.

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Photek
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Photek » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:04 am

Rex Kramer wrote:
Photek wrote:3:21 in and 2 thoughts:

1 - Some good points (I was hoping for some actual clips of PDP tho)

2 - This bomber dude is very hard to listen to, he'd be better off not coming across like a complete twat, he undermines his good points with pointless personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything.

I'll continue.

Why?

I've edited my post, he was meming, as in he was acting like a twat on purpose, so kindly do one.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Rex Kramer » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 am

Photek wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Photek wrote:3:21 in and 2 thoughts:

1 - Some good points (I was hoping for some actual clips of PDP tho)

2 - This bomber dude is very hard to listen to, he'd be better off not coming across like a complete twat, he undermines his good points with pointless personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything.

I'll continue.

Why?

I've edited my post, he was meming, as in he was acting like a twat on purpose, so kindly do one.

My assumption was you were watching something related to last night (the manifesto thing or something else), my mistake.

Last edited by Rex Kramer on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Preezy
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Preezy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 am

Moggy wrote:
Preezy wrote:I do think though that you need a big dose of mental illness to cross the line from embedding yourself into the alt-right mindset and actually picking up an assault rifle and shooting people. That's not to say the rhetoric isn't a factor, but the mental state of the person is the largest factor in this whole sorry mess.


That’s not always true though. Look at some of the utter atrocities in recent history, from the Nazis to the lynching of Black Americans. Was every Nazi mentally ill? All of the soldiers and camp guards? Or were they radicalised by an extreme ideology? Were the gangs of white racists that lynch Black people just mentally ill, or were they the symptom of centuries of dehumanisation of non-white people?

Picking up a gun and shooting people is crazy in our eyes, but that doesn’t mean the person is actually mentally ill. Some people are radicalised and some people are just banana splits.

I actually did think about the Nazi camp guards when typing out my post, it's a very valid point.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:11 am

Let's remember the real victims here

twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/1106503084270931968


"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
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Preezy
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Preezy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:12 am

Yikes.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by coldspice » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:13 am

JustBoogieThings™

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Tineash
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:14 am

We have to grapple with the fact that the intersection of videogames & social media has produced and elevated to positions of influence some very shitty people.

"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
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That
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by That » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:18 am

Boogie retweeted this:

twitter.com/TheAn1meMan/status/1106481586424340480


I see, people who discuss the possible role of Internet alt-right personalities in the radicalisation of a racist terrorist, are just as bad as a racist terrorist.

Thanks Boogie very cool

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Tineash
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/1106504857291292672



you missed the best one

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tafdolphin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:21 am

Tineash wrote:Let's remember the real victims here

twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/1106503084270931968



Because of strawberry floating course.

Tineash wrote:

twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/1106504857291292672



you missed the best one


And this is classic shitlord rhetoric, and something used by our very own Captain Red Dog in the other thread: "How dare you assume I didn't think something merely because I prioritised some meaningless gooseberry fool over actually saying it? How very dare you? Who's the real monster now HMMMMM?!?!"

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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