Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Lex-Man
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Lex-Man » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:09 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:That Pewdiepie thing is what UKIP were tweeting out a few days ago, isn't it?


Yup. I tried to find the tweet they sent a few days back saying "PATRIOTS SUB TO PEWDIEPIE" but I couldn't find it.


Weirdly they haven't deleted it yet.


User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by OrangeRKN » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:14 pm

There isn't a single catch-all solution to content filtering, you have to take a multi-pronged approach.

Content blacklisting is easy once something has been added to it, as anything that matches can be immediately prevented from upload. It gets more difficult if the content is edited first, which leads to something of a tech race (hence those videos where copyrighted content will be reversed, or skewed, or have a border added, to try and sneak past automated detection). You'll never win the tech race, but what you do is make it difficult enough that a random person would have to go to some deliberate length to re-upload content that has been blacklisted.

Easy and simple user reporting is a must. Users should be able to flag content as inappropriate in a single click, and not face repercussions for inaccurate reports that may dissuade them from doing so (PlayStation are really bad at this, if you try to report someone online you get some really serious sounding warnings about how false reports will lead to you being banned yourself and losing your account - why would anyone risk that for just trying to help out?). There is a technology side to this in the machine analysis that can be done on the accuracy of user's reports, so more trusted user's reports end up getting priority even if none of that is visible to the end user.

Manual review from paid professionals is always going to be necessary, and that needs to be both at a significant scale, but also with plenty of support for the staff, the reasons for which are evidenced in Taf's post above. As bad a job as it may be, I think it's simply unavoidable.

Once content has been flagged and removed, account bans need to be aggressively enforced and the repercussions visible. If someone has shared a video on social media, and that video has since been removed for containing violent content for example, it should say as much and even go as far as explaining why that content shouldn't be visible if necessary. Convince people at every opportunity to not seek out similar content further, either through persuasion or through threat of repercussion. I would go as far as calling people out for repeatedly viewing such content. People hide behind a perception of anonymity on the internet, but remind them of the reality and they might be less inclined to fall into these holes.

User avatar
Tineash
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Just start banning nazi chuds from Twitter and Facebook.

"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
User avatar
Squinty
Member
Joined in 2009
Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Squinty » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:22 pm

Tineash wrote:Just start banning nazi chuds from Twitter and Facebook.


Bu, bu, but mah freedom of speech!1!!!!!

User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by OrangeRKN » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:32 pm

jawafour wrote:I imagine that the only way to effectively monitor the social media platforms is for all uploads to be viewed and assessed ahead of being made available? I wonder if this would be feasible? I can't really think of an alternative approach - things like copyrighted sound and images can be identified via technological comparisons, but I don't think the tech is in place to check other "original" examples of imagery and speech.


It's difficult, but there are things than can be done. Speech to text is getting better (youtube already has often decent automatic captioning). You can then do some natural language processing on that to get an idea of what subject is being discussed. There are legitimate reasons to discuss subjects that are themselves inappropriate, but what it can do is highlight what videos are in most need of manual review.

On the manual review of uploads before they go live, I also don't think it has to be all or nothing. A variety of factors could contribute towards whether an upload needs review before going live for example, so a new account with no uploads and not linked to a google account might be deemed "riskier" and therefore an upload more likely to require manual review before going live. The service might also adopt a tiered approach to content, so while content goes live it might be unfavoured in search results compared to videos that have been reviewed. Videos could be visible marked when they have been manually reviewed, so an unsuspecting user knows before watching whether it has been looked over. Similarly a video might be marked as pending review if it's been reported by trusted users already.

Tineash wrote:Just start banning nazi chuds from Twitter and Facebook.


But yes this is the obvious thing that needs to start happening! We can talk lots about how to differentiate content and catch out people trying to game the system, but there is so much blatant stuff out there that it's baffling those people haven't already been banned.

User avatar
Jazzem
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Jazzem » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:37 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:
Tineash wrote:Just start banning nazi chuds from Twitter and Facebook.
But yes this is the obvious thing that needs to start happening! We can talk lots about how to differentiate content and catch out people trying to game the system, but there is so much blatant stuff out there that it's baffling those people haven't already been banned.


History doesn't deserve to look back kindly on the holders of social media platforms and their cowardly '''centrist''' attitudes. People with a staggering amount of power over social discourse and they allow it to run rampant with awful regressive rhetoric, blue verification ticks and all.

Deplatforming works yo, there's a reason we haven't heard from Milo or Richard Spencer in a good while now

User avatar
Squinty
Member
Joined in 2009
Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Squinty » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:45 pm

Jazzem wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Tineash wrote:Just start banning nazi chuds from Twitter and Facebook.
But yes this is the obvious thing that needs to start happening! We can talk lots about how to differentiate content and catch out people trying to game the system, but there is so much blatant stuff out there that it's baffling those people haven't already been banned.


History doesn't deserve to look back kindly on the holders of social media platforms and their cowardly '''centrist''' attitudes. People with a staggering amount of power over social discourse and they allow it to run rampant with awful regressive rhetoric, blue verification ticks and all.

Deplatforming works yo, there's a reason we haven't heard from Milo or Richard Spencer in a good while now


Was there not something about Milo going bankrupt recently? Because that's good.

User avatar
Karl_
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Karl_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Yeah, all his business deals fell through, he has no platforms left, and he now has literally no money. It's fantastic.

User avatar
Jazzem
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Jazzem » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:49 pm

Squinty wrote:Was there not something about Milo going bankrupt recently? Because that's good.

Karl wrote:Yeah, all his business deals fell through, he has no platforms left, and he now has literally no money. It's fantastic.

While I try not to engage in schadenfreude particularly often, wanting to focus on the positive...lemme have this one

Image

:3

User avatar
Squinty
Member
Joined in 2009
Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Squinty » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Hopefully the same will happen to Little Tommeh.

I've stopped watching videos from a lot of YouTube personalities. Used to follow a lot of YouTube guitarists but it's a pretty strawberry floating boring scene now. I also find a lot of them annoying as strawberry float.

User avatar
Dig Dug
Member
Joined in 2011

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Dig Dug » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:06 pm

Got a smile out of me so I'm sharing it.
Image

User avatar
Green Gecko
Director
Joined in 2008
Location: Sussex
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Green Gecko » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:15 pm

Squinty wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Preezy wrote:How many actual people do Facebook and Twitter employ? You'd need armies of thousands upon thousands of people to keep up with the upload and post rate, it's probably impossible.

Personally I'd just switch them all off and be done with it.


This is near essential reading, albeit pretty strawberry floating grim:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/25/1822 ... ns-arizona

The video depicts a man being murdered. Someone is stabbing him, dozens of times, while he screams and begs for his life. Chloe’s job is to tell the room whether this post should be removed. She knows that section 13 of the Facebook community standards prohibits videos that depict the murder of one or more people. When Chloe explains this to the class, she hears her voice shaking.

Returning to her seat, Chloe feels an overpowering urge to sob. Another trainee has gone up to review the next post, but Chloe cannot concentrate. She leaves the room, and begins to cry so hard that she has trouble breathing.

No one tries to comfort her. This is the job she was hired to do. And for the 1,000 people like Chloe moderating content for Facebook at the Phoenix site, and for 15,000 content reviewers around the world, today is just another day at the office.


What the actual strawberry float.

I don't listen to it but FF notified a new IRL podcast about the "human cost of moderation" if anyone is interested. I've read similar articles before that do give some rare insight into the realities of moderating the most extreme online content so it's just a bit less of a "why not" and more of a "how it would".

♥ gaems | t: @GRcade | FB: GRcadeUK | YT: GRcadeVideo | Twitch: GRcadeUK
Image
Image
User avatar
Vermilion
Member
Joined in 2018
Location: Everywhere
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Vermilion » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:Easy and simple user reporting is a must. Users should be able to flag content as inappropriate in a single click, and not face repercussions for inaccurate reports that may dissuade them from doing so (PlayStation are really bad at this, if you try to report someone online you get some really serious sounding warnings about how false reports will lead to you being banned yourself and losing your account - why would anyone risk that for just trying to help out?).


The problem here though, is how do you prevent and deal with malicious groups of people flagging innocent videos?

You see the amount of pond life out there just in youtube's comments sections, and if you find yourself targeted in that way, you can end up in a lot of trouble without even knowing why.

User avatar
Karl_
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Nyaaaaaaa~!
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Karl_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:06 pm

Vermilion wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:Easy and simple user reporting is a must. Users should be able to flag content as inappropriate in a single click, and not face repercussions for inaccurate reports that may dissuade them from doing so (PlayStation are really bad at this, if you try to report someone online you get some really serious sounding warnings about how false reports will lead to you being banned yourself and losing your account - why would anyone risk that for just trying to help out?).


The problem here though, is how do you prevent and deal with malicious groups of people flagging innocent videos?

You see the amount of pond life out there just in youtube's comments sections, and if you find yourself targeted in that way, you can end up in a lot of trouble without even knowing why.


Malicious flags are not so difficult to detect and apply a very low weighting to with machine learning. (Probably -- I create a lot of machine learning models for work, but obviously have never tackled that particular problem, so take my thoughts on it with a pinch of salt.)

User avatar
Starbreaker
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Starbreaker » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:34 pm

If anyone is interested in the current goings on of former moderator/renowned banana split Eighthours, in the rllmuk thread on this topic he showed remarkable restraint by managing to make it to 2pm without mentioning how this is the fault of RAMPANT ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE LABOUR PARTY.

User avatar
Prototype
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Prototype » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:50 pm

Tineash wrote:strawberry float you both very very much.


Great argument, well made.

User avatar
Mafro
Moderator
Joined in 2008
AKA: DAT MAF
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Mafro » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:05 pm

Image
Image

HSH28 wrote:Assmung you ever get one that is.

Blog | Twitter
User avatar
Pedz
Twitch Team
Joined in 2009

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Pedz » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:11 pm

Well, at least us Welsh weren't involved.

ImageImage
User avatar
Ironhide
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Autobot City

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Ironhide » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:16 pm

Starbreaker wrote:If anyone is interested in the current goings on of former moderator/renowned banana split Eighthours, in the rllmuk thread on this topic he showed remarkable restraint by managing to make it to 2pm without mentioning how this is the fault of RAMPANT ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE LABOUR PARTY.


Normally I'd avoid going anywhere near the subject of anti-semitism but I really think the media are grossly exaggerating the scale of the problem within the Labour party. Obviously anyone being abused or otherwise targetted based on ethnicity, race, religion .etc is a serious matter and should be fully investigated but I feel like it's quite a convenient way to discredit individuals or organisations when any attempt to have a sensible discussion about the subject is tantamount to political career suicide.

I'm not entirely comfortable with this subject matter so I'll leave it at that.

Image
User avatar
Lex-Man
Member
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Lex-Man » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:21 pm

I'm personally more worried about the % of people are racist. I mean it's probably a minority that are out and out white nationalists but a lot of people seemed to be saying things from"seeing how they like it" or how "they shouldn't be here anyway" down to not really being that bothered. It's seems actually scary looking at the comments on articles how many people seem not to care, or just actively hate Muslims.

Also with the PewDiePie stuff being linked by the shooter and UKIP I wonder how connected the groups actually are.


Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Garth, Snowcannon and 57 guests