Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ

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Tineash
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PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:21 pm

Prototype wrote:
Tineash wrote:strawberry float you both very very much.


Great argument, well made.


Thank you, I really sincerely mean it.

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Rightey
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PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Rightey » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:22 pm

Karl wrote:
Photek wrote:
Tineash wrote:PDP is the soft edge of the right-wing online radicalisation of young white men.

I don't want to argue, but this line here is pure bollocks.

It's not mate. Pewdiepie and his obsession with racist jokes and "triggered SJWs" - much the same as Jordan Peterson and his rants on "neo-Marxist feminism" - are the public-facing edge of a wormhole that leads you through alt-right commentators like Ben Shapiro, then fake news sites like Breitbart and InfoWars, and finally onto the anonymous imageboards where these attacks are openly planned by white supremacists.


Isn't this just a slippery slope fallacy? It's the same as the conservatives saying we can't have public healthcare because it will end with everyone in a Gulag.

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PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Lex-Man » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:17 pm

Rightey wrote:
Karl wrote:
Photek wrote:
Tineash wrote:PDP is the soft edge of the right-wing online radicalisation of young white men.

I don't want to argue, but this line here is pure bollocks.

It's not mate. Pewdiepie and his obsession with racist jokes and "triggered SJWs" - much the same as Jordan Peterson and his rants on "neo-Marxist feminism" - are the public-facing edge of a wormhole that leads you through alt-right commentators like Ben Shapiro, then fake news sites like Breitbart and InfoWars, and finally onto the anonymous imageboards where these attacks are openly planned by white supremacists.


Isn't this just a slippery slope fallacy? It's the same as the conservatives saying we can't have public healthcare because it will end with everyone in a Gulag.


The problem is it's an active system not passive. You can question how racist PewDiePie actually is but his comments section creates a recruiting pool for alt right people to recruit in the comments or when PDP says anything racist and the press report it they can make videos about how the MSM is biased and defend him. His fans will be attracted to the new videos and be exposed to slightly more racist materials and then churned on into the system. They don't actually need the rate to convert that many of the people to be worth while as the numbers at the start are so huge.

It's actually been documented that people on the Storm Front forums actually talk openly about the process because only the 'SJW' crowd pick up on it and it weirdly lends the alt-right ammo to just say we're crazy.

That said I think there is a similar process on the internet ran by hard left times trying to push an anti-capitalist agenda. Philosophy Tube started giving break downs on philosophy but has shifted more to talking about how we should all adopt Communism and places like the Carney try and pull people over into the left and away from the left side of the MSM. That said at least they don't want to murder everyone who isn't white.

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PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Karl_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:44 pm

Rightey wrote:
Karl wrote:Pewdiepie and his obsession with racist jokes and "triggered SJWs" - much the same as Jordan Peterson and his rants on "neo-Marxist feminism" - are the public-facing edge of a wormhole that leads you through alt-right commentators like Ben Shapiro, then fake news sites like Breitbart and InfoWars, and finally onto the anonymous imageboards where these attacks are openly planned by white supremacists.

Isn't this just a slippery slope fallacy? It's the same as the conservatives saying we can't have public healthcare because it will end with everyone in a Gulag.

I suppose to some extent you could think of it as a slippery slope, but it isn't a fallacy -- if we're going to call it that, then it certainly is a slope and it is slippery. It's demonstrable that there is a social network funnel that leads from right-leaning figures like Pewdiepie and Jordan Peterson through increasingly extreme layers of the alt-right -- it's been mapped! It's well-documented that social media recommendation algorithms plunge users into bubbles of extreme content -- you can confirm it with simple experiments! We know that radicalised white supremacists got there via that mechanism -- the ones who have a change of heart and de-radicalise will openly tell you about it, and there are plenty of real accounts that begin "Well, it all started when I got really into Ben Shapiro's clips...".

The sooner you accept that this is how a propaganda war is being fought on the Internet today - turning hearts away from social democracy and multiculturalism, and ultimately towards fascism - the less likely you are to become one of its unwitting soldiers.

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PostRe: There's been a mass shooting at a mosque in NZ
by Cuttooth » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 pm

Prototype wrote:
Tineash wrote:strawberry float you both very very much.


Great argument, well made.

Hiya. You're unrelentingly centrist position will get people killed, sorry.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Mafro » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:51 pm

Pedz wrote:
Photek wrote:3:21 in and 2 thoughts:

1 - Some good points (I was hoping for some actual clips of PDP tho)

2 - This bomber dude is very hard to listen to, he'd be better off not coming across like a complete twat, he undermines his good points with pointless personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything.

I'll continue.

EDIT: he was meming...

Well that was short...which was based on the jew joke he used several times. Can't say I'm convinced yet, ill research more over the weekend.



It wasn't that long ago that Pewdiepie called someone a n**ger in a game on Twitch.

Clip of this btw



Interested to hear Photek's defence of this. Does he need us to provide more links for him to educate himself? Find out once the weekend is over.

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Prototype
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Prototype » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:04 pm

Pewdiepie must be absolutely minted

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Slayerx » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:22 pm

Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Lex-Man » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:32 pm

Slayerx wrote:Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.


They might not actually be racist, at least Peterson might not be I don't know about Shapiro. Peterson's views about traditional roles for Men and Women and Alpha Male stuff creates an environment where racists can recruit. Either passively by creating adjacent content like making a video on YouTube about Peterson so it get recommend to people who watch a lot of Peterson stuff or by actively engaging people on Peterson connect to try and move them on to more extreme content.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Slayerx » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:35 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Slayerx wrote:Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.


They might not actually be racist, at least Peterson might not be I don't know about Shapiro. Peterson's views about traditional roles for Men and Women and Alpha Male stuff creates an environment where racists can recruit. Either passively by creating adjacent content like making a video on YouTube about Peterson so it get recommend to people who watch a lot of Peterson stuff or by actively engaging people on Peterson connect to try and move them on to more extreme content.


Surely they can't be held 100% accountable for that?

I just get fed up of people overly generalizing and simplifying things to push the alt-right narrative.

I enjoy Joe Rogan's content due to the variety but again he speaks to people considered alt-right and then nut jobs like Alex Jones and so Rogan must be Alt-Right.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Lex-Man » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:58 pm

Slayerx wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Slayerx wrote:Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.


They might not actually be racist, at least Peterson might not be I don't know about Shapiro. Peterson's views about traditional roles for Men and Women and Alpha Male stuff creates an environment where racists can recruit. Either passively by creating adjacent content like making a video on YouTube about Peterson so it get recommend to people who watch a lot of Peterson stuff or by actively engaging people on Peterson connect to try and move them on to more extreme content.


Surely they can't be held 100% accountable for that?

I just get fed up of people overly generalizing and simplifying things to push the alt-right narrative.

I enjoy Joe Rogan's content due to the variety but again he speaks to people considered alt-right and then nut jobs like Alex Jones and so Rogan must be Alt-Right.


I feel in Rogan's case it's more clear cut, he's providing a platform for people with totally nuts idea and basically introducing them to a new audience. He may not be a member of the alt-right but he's definitely helping them grow.

What do you actually like about Peterson the guy actually seems like a total nutter to me. Although he does seem to have a somewhat decent background.

Last edited by Lex-Man on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tafdolphin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:59 pm

Slayerx wrote:Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.


So this is something that really, really bugs me. Photex did it with PDP and now Slayer with Peterson and Shapiro: "Prove to me that this person I like is racist/sexist/alt-right"

Um, no. If you subscribe to the ideas of such people why should the onus of proof be on those who state them to be, shall we say, 'controversial'? If such a request were actually being made in good faith then, well you wouldn't need to make it at all as you'd be educating yourself.

Peterson is, as his peers have said, the stupid people's smart person. Shapiro has promulgated the lie of The Great Replacement and served as an inspiration to several white supremacist killers. If you watch their content and don't see something amiss already, no video I post ripping their arguments apart is going to affect your position.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Karl_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:02 pm

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Don't watch their content, and don't watch anyone who collaborates with them.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Lex-Man » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:06 pm

Would Milo be more central a few years ago?

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Tineash
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 pm

Slayerx wrote:Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.


Ben Shapiro isn't even a proxy racist, he is racist as strawberry float

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It is painful that this has to be explained over and over and over

Last edited by Tineash on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Slayerx
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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Slayerx » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:08 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Slayerx wrote:Can someone explain/prove to me how Peterson and Shapiro are Alt-Right and be proxy racists ?

And I don't mean just because the media labels them so I mean actual proof.

I must be too stupid as I don't see it and agree with a lot of what they say but I'm not a racist.


So this is something that really, really bugs me. Photex did it with PDP and now Slayer with Peterson and Shapiro: "Prove to me that this person I like is racist/sexist/alt-right"

Um, no. If you subscribe to the ideas of such people why should the onus of proof be on those who state them to be, shall we say, 'controversial'? If such a request were actually being made in good faith then, well you wouldn't need to make it at all as you'd be educating yourself.

Peterson is, as his peers have said, the stupid people's smart person. Shapiro has promulgated the lie of The Great Replacement and served as an inspiration to several white supremacist killers. If you watch their content and don't see something amiss already, no video I post ripping their arguments apart is going to affect your position.


You're entitled to that opinion but I would hardly call the people calling Peterson the stupid people's smart person 'Peers' but again that's your opinion.

I just find identity politics to be very dangerous and reading this thread, I think illustrates this we have a mass shooting which is horrible and somehow Pewdie Pie is dragged into a conversation along with anyone else people want to label Alt-Right which in my opinion is ridiculous.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Tineash » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:09 pm

Slayerx wrote:I just find identity politics to be very dangerous and reading this thread, I think illustrates this we have a mass shooting which is horrible and somehow Pewdie Pie is dragged into a conversation along with anyone else people want to label Alt-Right which in my opinion is ridiculous.



LOOOOL jackpot

I for one find mass shootings dangerous, but you do you buddy

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Slayerx » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:11 pm

Karl wrote:Image

Don't watch their content, and don't watch anyone who collaborates with them.


I'm pretty sure its more dangerous not to be aware of what they are saying than to simply ignore them.

It seems odd people have the mind set to tell people to not watch their content, how about people make up their own minds instead of been told what to watch and what not to watch.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Slayerx » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:12 pm

Tineash wrote:
Slayerx wrote:I just find identity politics to be very dangerous and reading this thread, I think illustrates this we have a mass shooting which is horrible and somehow Pewdie Pie is dragged into a conversation along with anyone else people want to label Alt-Right which in my opinion is ridiculous.



LOOOOL jackpot

I for one find mass shootings dangerous, but you do you buddy


Oh I will thanks.

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PostRe: Politics discussion: on the alt-right and their relationship to the recent shooting in NZ
by Karl_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:31 pm

Slayerx wrote:It seems odd people have the mind set to tell people to not watch their content, how about people make up their own minds instead of been told what to watch and what not to watch.

Watch what you want, but that alt-right YouTube network represents a significant engine within the propaganda machine of the modern fascist movement in the west. Now that you're aware, you should take the opportunity to think about whether that content has had some influence over you. Better to find out now and take a step back from it, than end up with radicalised political views and not even know it.

It's a bad sign that you think "identity politics is dangerous", a classic alt-right talking point. There's nothing dangerous for anyone about minority groups organising for social equality. The alt-right want you to think there is, because it suits their anti-feminist, anti-multicultural, anti-queer agenda to frame groups like that as self-obsessed agitators rather than as genuine, legitimate protestors.


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