Politics Thread 5

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Samuel_1
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:23 am

Moggy wrote:
Drumstick wrote:That should spell it out to Labour, why they aren't making any ground whatsoever against the most spineless, chicken-shit government in recent history, with a joke of a PM at the helm.

But it won't. It never does.


Actually it is because the media hate Corbyn and that's why people think that they don't like him.

I know you're joking, but many a true word said in jest. I would argue that the media have done a fantastic job of pummeling Corbyn and most of the populace have bought it. He's not perfect, sure, but show me a politician that is. I do however think he is a principled man who genuinely cares about making people's lives better. For me it comes down to policy, there's very little that he has tabled that I disagree with. My only personal sticking point is his brexit view, but there's a little nugget of news I've recently seen for all of those Corbyn haters out there; apparently his letter to the EU has been cited by them as a "key to progress". This was reported on ITN. May has completely ignored this by the way.

It's so weird to me that people constantly bash Labour and Corbyn when it is the Tories (Cameron) and May that are marching this country off a cliff. I understand that people are frustrated that he is not holding the government to account, but watching the most recent PMQs, I would argue he's doing a good job of that.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:51 am

If Corbyn had principles he wouldn't pull the same "Lie about the EU to get people to support me" bullshit the Tories pull.
Corbyn loves to go on about how EU state aid rules would stop him re-nationalising the railways when that's complete bollocks.

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Samuel_1
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:56 am

Lagamorph wrote:If Corbyn had principles he wouldn't pull the same "Lie about the EU to get people to support me" bullshit the Tories pull.
Corbyn loves to go on about how EU state aid rules would stop him re-nationalising the railways when that's complete bollocks.

It's not all about Brexit though, there are other things at stake.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:56 am

Basically they're ALL a shower of banana splits and we'd be better off nuking the site from orbit and starting again.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:02 am

Samuel_1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:If Corbyn had principles he wouldn't pull the same "Lie about the EU to get people to support me" bullshit the Tories pull.
Corbyn loves to go on about how EU state aid rules would stop him re-nationalising the railways when that's complete bollocks.

It's not all about Brexit though, there are other things at stake.

So it's fine for him to lie about Brexit/the EU so long as it helps him with his non-Brexit policies? None of which will be affordable if a bad Brexit destroys the economy.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:11 am

Samuel_1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:If Corbyn had principles he wouldn't pull the same "Lie about the EU to get people to support me" bullshit the Tories pull.
Corbyn loves to go on about how EU state aid rules would stop him re-nationalising the railways when that's complete bollocks.

It's not all about Brexit though, there are other things at stake.


While that is true, Brexit is the biggest issue around at the moment. And it has an effect on everything else. If the country slips into recession/depression because of Brexit, then all the plans that Corbyn might have are going to have to change.

Corbyn can have all of the policies he likes, but he is not the man to lead Labour to an election victory. He did well at the snap election, but that momentum (pun not intended) has now gone and a lot of the people that voted for him are starting to see him as a weak leader who is at best poor on Brexit and at worst is outright trying to sabotage the chances of remaining.

Corbyn presents himself as an honest man, but I am not sure that is true. He is just as much of a liar and hypocrite as any other party leader. He might be nicer than previous leaders and he might have more left leaning policies but he is still a career politician that will mislead and misinform in order to get himself into Number 10.

And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, you have to be somewhat deceitful in order to get to the top levels of politics. But it really harms his honest image when he is so easily caught out being deceitful.

But the worst thing about him is that he is enabling a hard Tory led Brexit. And that is unforgivable.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Jenuall » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:20 am

One of the things that has always been the case in politics, and that recent events have only reinforced, is that a huge proportion of the electorate are incredibly tribal - they will align themselves with a party or standpoint and it would take a miracle to sway them from that position. It's why you rarely get an absolute rout in any election - one party can be a glowing beacon of hope fronted by a charismatic genius and another a complete shower of gooseberry fool that has strawberry floated the country over for years and yet you could look at the results and think they were about even.

Yes Corbyn is a bit gooseberry fool, and May is strawberry floating terrible too, but their individual performance, characteristics and policies probably have a frighteningly small influence over the way people vote. Sadly.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:22 am

Yep, I reckon your average person on the street couldn't name a single policy of either the Maybot or Comrade Jezza.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:24 am

Preezy wrote:Yep, I reckon your average person on the street couldn't name a single policy of either the Maybot or Comrade Jezza.


May: “Brexit means Brexit”

Corbyn: “Eat the rich”

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Hexx
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hexx » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:27 am

Preezy wrote:Yep, I reckon your average person on the street couldn't name a single policy of either the Maybot or Comrade Jezza.


May - Brexit means Brexit
Corbyn - Kill all the Jews!

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Hyperion
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hyperion » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:28 am

Moggy wrote:Corbyn: “Eat the rich”


Tell me more...

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Rex Kramer » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:30 am

Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:If Corbyn had principles he wouldn't pull the same "Lie about the EU to get people to support me" bullshit the Tories pull.
Corbyn loves to go on about how EU state aid rules would stop him re-nationalising the railways when that's complete bollocks.

It's not all about Brexit though, there are other things at stake.


While that is true, Brexit is the biggest issue around at the moment. And it has an effect on everything else. If the country slips into recession/depression because of Brexit, then all the plans that Corbyn might have are going to have to change.

Corbyn can have all of the policies he likes, but he is not the man to lead Labour to an election victory. He did well at the snap election, but that momentum (pun not intended) has now gone and a lot of the people that voted for him are starting to see him as a weak leader who is at best poor on Brexit and at worst is outright trying to sabotage the chances of remaining.

Corbyn presents himself as an honest man, but I am not sure that is true. He is just as much of a liar and hypocrite as any other party leader. He might be nicer than previous leaders and he might have more left leaning policies but he is still a career politician that will mislead and misinform in order to get himself into Number 10.

And that’s not necessarily a bad thing, you have to be somewhat deceitful in order to get to the top levels of politics. But it really harms his honest image when he is so easily caught out being deceitful.

But the worst thing about him is that he is enabling a hard Tory led Brexit. And that is unforgivable.

I'm not convinced on this, I think he'd prefer to be perpetually in opposition.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Cuttooth » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 am

Preezy wrote:Basically they're ALL a shower of banana splits and we'd be better off nuking the site from orbit and starting again.

We're in this mess because of ignorant false equivalence like this to be honest.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:41 am

Cuttooth wrote:
Preezy wrote:Basically they're ALL a shower of banana splits and we'd be better off nuking the site from orbit and starting again.

We're in this mess because of ignorant false equivalence like this to be honest.

Please explain.

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Tafdolphin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:50 am

Preezy wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:
Preezy wrote:Basically they're ALL a shower of banana splits and we'd be better off nuking the site from orbit and starting again.

We're in this mess because of ignorant false equivalence like this to be honest.

Please explain.


Saying 'they're all banana splits' is basically saying 'they're all as bad as each other.' Which they're not.

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andretmzt
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by andretmzt » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:52 am

Jenuall wrote:One of the things that has always been the case in politics, and that recent events have only reinforced, is that a huge proportion of the electorate are incredibly tribal - they will align themselves with a party or standpoint and it would take a miracle to sway them from that position. It's why you rarely get an absolute rout in any election - one party can be a glowing beacon of hope fronted by a charismatic genius and another a complete shower of gooseberry fool that has strawberry floated the country over for years and yet you could look at the results and think they were about even.

Yes Corbyn is a bit gooseberry fool, and May is strawberry floating terrible too, but their individual performance, characteristics and policies probably have a frighteningly small influence over the way people vote. Sadly.


I agree with this and I think it in some sense extends to other things in life, like who you shop with or who your energy provider is. "I've used British Gas all my life", as if that is something to be proud of.

Suppose you won't get called a knob for shopping at Morrisons though.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 am

Preezy wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:
Preezy wrote:Basically they're ALL a shower of banana splits and we'd be better off nuking the site from orbit and starting again.

We're in this mess because of ignorant false equivalence like this to be honest.

Please explain.


Saying that they are all the same is what has caused people to believe that all politicians are self serving and useless. That isn’t true for a lot of them, some of them work very hard trying to make things better for their constituents.

As you move to the higher levels then a lot of them are career politicians that don’t really care about anything but themselves and/or their party but again that isn’t all of them.

And saying they are all the same fails when you compare the Conservatives to Labour. The Conservatives brought in austerity and the hostile environment. Labour might be useless under Corbyn, but they at least would put money into making ordinary lives better rather than enriching their wealthy buddies.

People are also way too tribal when it comes to what party they support, they will never change their vote to another party even if it is more representative of their views. I will never understand blind party loyalty to be honest.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:56 am

andretmzt wrote:
Jenuall wrote:One of the things that has always been the case in politics, and that recent events have only reinforced, is that a huge proportion of the electorate are incredibly tribal - they will align themselves with a party or standpoint and it would take a miracle to sway them from that position. It's why you rarely get an absolute rout in any election - one party can be a glowing beacon of hope fronted by a charismatic genius and another a complete shower of gooseberry fool that has strawberry floated the country over for years and yet you could look at the results and think they were about even.

Yes Corbyn is a bit gooseberry fool, and May is strawberry floating terrible too, but their individual performance, characteristics and policies probably have a frighteningly small influence over the way people vote. Sadly.


I agree with this and I think it in some sense extends to other things in life, like who you shop with or who your energy provider is. "I've used British Gas all my life", as if that is something to be proud of.

Suppose you won't get called a knob for shopping at Morrisons though.


Well no but that’s because Morrisons shoppers are banana splits.

The knobs are the M&S twats.

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Preezy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am

Meh, they all seem like banana splits to me.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:09 am

Preezy wrote:Meh, they all seem like banana splits to me.


How can you compare Caroline Lucas to Jacob Rees-Mogg and conclude that they are both banana splits?


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