Politics Thread 5

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Samuel_1
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:09 pm

Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-vote-tory-lib-dems-labour-brexit-theresa-may-a7697991.html?fbclid=IwAR0lUK_00BWwZpV3YtP_spX0kKvk84DyA5QjgVlgg39YJ_8jeBWw6AVymho

This is one of the reasons I support Corbyn, of course he's having a hard time uniting the party, it's still full of Tory light Blairites.


You support Corbyn because you dislike Blair and think people that disagree with him/you are Tory light?

Ok. Enjoy perpetual opposition until you learn to compromise.

NHS privatisation continued under Blair, unnecessary wars were fought under Blair, Thatcher called Blair (one of) her greatest achievement. I would compromise and have someone other than Corbyn, but I don't want another Blair. Which of Corbyn's policies do you have issues with?

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:10 pm

Lagamorph wrote:

twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1086251712606863360



The Thursday of Feb? how much notice do you have to give to hold an election, I've got five weeks in my head. So it would have to be announced pretty sharpish.

I don't like the idea of holding a GE to sort out the countries stance on brexit. A GE should not be about one issue. You should be voting for a party to lead the country on a whole range of issues and finding the party that mostly fits your ethos. If the Tories for example stood on a platform of no deal, labour a customs union and the Lib Dems staying in the EU then should i vote Lib Dem even if i disagree with a whole host of their policies for example? surely it should be a referendum and not a GE to sort this out. If you are a hardened tory voter and wanted to remain would you really vote Lib Dem if you have nothing else in common with their party.

It's like since the 2016 election the Tories have said that it gave them a mandate to continue with brexit. Did it? you surely don't vote for a party based on just one issue.

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KK
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:11 pm

The Tories secretly want to give this to Labour so they can come back later on and blame Brexit on them (would be the cynical answer).

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Rocsteady » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:14 pm

KK wrote:
Guardian wrote:Home Office refuses to let great-grandparents remain in UK

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... main-in-uk

Imagine that being your job. I'd jump off a strawberry floating bridge.

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Samuel_1
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:17 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:

twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1086251712606863360



The Thursday of Feb? how much notice do you have to give to hold an election, I've got five weeks in my head. So it would have to be announced pretty sharpish.

I don't like the idea of holding a GE to sort out the countries stance on brexit. A GE should not be about one issue. You should be voting for a party to lead the country on a whole range of issues and finding the party that mostly fits your ethos. If the Tories for example stood on a platform of no deal, labour a customs union and the Lib Dems staying in the EU then should i vote Lib Dem even if i disagree with a whole host of their policies for example? surely it should be a referendum and not a GE to sort this out. If you are a hardened tory voter and wanted to remain would you really vote Lib Dem if you have nothing else in common with their party.

It's like since the 2016 election the Tories have said that it gave them a mandate to continue with brexit. Did it? you surely don't vote for a party based on just one issue.

Couldn't agree more. Brexit is helping the Tories in a way, people are so obsessed with it that it helps to hide many of their egregious activities.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:23 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-vote-tory-lib-dems-labour-brexit-theresa-may-a7697991.html?fbclid=IwAR0lUK_00BWwZpV3YtP_spX0kKvk84DyA5QjgVlgg39YJ_8jeBWw6AVymho

This is one of the reasons I support Corbyn, of course he's having a hard time uniting the party, it's still full of Tory light Blairites.


You support Corbyn because you dislike Blair and think people that disagree with him/you are Tory light?

Ok. Enjoy perpetual opposition until you learn to compromise.

NHS privatisation continued under Blair, unnecessary wars were fought under Blair, Thatcher called Blair (one of) her greatest achievement. I would compromise and have someone other than Corbyn, but I don't want another Blair. Which of Corbyn's policies do you have issues with?


Brexit is the big one. I won’t vote for anybody that support or doesn’t fight against it.

Blair is long gone. Being anti Blair shouldn’t make you automatically pro-Corbyn.

Corbyn has some great policies. But he’s pretty much unelectable in this country and so will never get to implement them.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Knoyleo » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:27 pm


pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Alvin Flummux » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:31 pm

Would still be a better PM than May.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:15 pm

It looks like a young G-man from Half Life

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Cheeky Devlin » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Rocsteady wrote:
KK wrote:
Guardian wrote:Home Office refuses to let great-grandparents remain in UK

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... main-in-uk

Imagine that being your job. I'd jump off a strawberry floating bridge.

Working within the Civil Service myself, I see job adverts for the Home Office all the time and while I've looked into those jobs before I've never given them more than a passing consideration for exactly those reasons.

I can't really think of any other job within the CS that would be as emotionally stressful as being the person who has to make those decisions, especially within the framework they are given to make them. Definitely not something I could do.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Squinty » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:42 pm

Cheeky Devlin wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:
KK wrote:
Guardian wrote:Home Office refuses to let great-grandparents remain in UK

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... main-in-uk

Imagine that being your job. I'd jump off a strawberry floating bridge.

Working within the Civil Service myself, I see job adverts for the Home Office all the time and while I've looked into those jobs before I've never given them more than a passing consideration for exactly those reasons.

I can't really think of any other job within the CS that would be as emotionally stressful as being the person who has to make those decisions, especially within the framework they are given to make them. Definitely not something I could do.


You would probably become so desensitized to it after a while. Which is a scary thought.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Dowbocop » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:52 pm

Squinty wrote:
Cheeky Devlin wrote:
Rocsteady wrote:
KK wrote:
Guardian wrote:Home Office refuses to let great-grandparents remain in UK

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... main-in-uk

Imagine that being your job. I'd jump off a strawberry floating bridge.

Working within the Civil Service myself, I see job adverts for the Home Office all the time and while I've looked into those jobs before I've never given them more than a passing consideration for exactly those reasons.

I can't really think of any other job within the CS that would be as emotionally stressful as being the person who has to make those decisions, especially within the framework they are given to make them. Definitely not something I could do.


You would probably become so desensitized to it after a while. Which is a scary thought.

There's that head immigration officer on one of those Border Force programmes who basically gets consulted by his junior officers and almost always goes "yep, yep, yep, no send them back". It's probably quite an odd world to work in because you have to assume everyone is lying, even more so than the healthy scepticism needed in police and health/social care work.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:42 am

The former Scotland First Minister Alex Salmond has been arrested by police.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:56 am

KK wrote:The former Scotland First Minister Alex Salmond has been arrested by police.

At least the oil will pay for his legal defence.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:51 pm

I'm hoping this will be the start of a process that sees the Scottish public wisening up to their domestic politicians. There always seems to be an attitude that they want to break away from "corrupt" Westminster politics and the SNP have managed to create a kind of holier than thou reputation. The truth is, no politics are infallible and the kind of thing Salmond is alleged to have done is just as common in Scotland as it is in Westminster.

Part of that maturity is also understanding that this type of behaviour shouldn't turn people away from independence either.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRKN » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:04 pm

KK wrote:The former Scotland First Minister Alex Salmond has been arrested by police.


Thank god it was the police that arrested him!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:15 pm

Former Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond has appeared in court charged with attempted rape and sexual assault.

He faces a total of 14 charges at Edinburgh Sheriff Court.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747

Well I don’t think anybody was expecting it to be that bad.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Dual » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:18 pm

Yikes

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:26 pm

twitter.com/GD10/status/1088454327801307137


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Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Cheeky Devlin
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Cheeky Devlin » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:04 pm

strawberry floating hell.

I'd expected him to be accused of being a bit "handsy" and aggressive, but attempted Rape is quite the step up from that.


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