Politics Thread 5

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Pedz
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Pedz » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:31 pm

Errkal wrote:
Pedz wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:Can we not just ban news papers from an envinronmental point of view ?

ePapers in an app or nothing, fewer strawberry float nuts reading lies and believing them and the polar bears get to live.


I’d imagine most newspapers use recycled paper.


Still uses energy to make the paper and recycling it again. Not having at all is better than reusing it.


Energy can be renewable, and paper is a lot more recyclable than all the rare metal components inside phones ;)


Ignore Errkal. He doesn't like paper as the feel and smell turns him sick.


You say that like it is an odd thing.


Odd? Baffling more like.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:08 pm

Pedz wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:Can we not just ban news papers from an envinronmental point of view ?

ePapers in an app or nothing, fewer strawberry float nuts reading lies and believing them and the polar bears get to live.


I’d imagine most newspapers use recycled paper.


Still uses energy to make the paper and recycling it again. Not having at all is better than reusing it.


Energy can be renewable, and paper is a lot more recyclable than all the rare metal components inside phones ;)


Ignore Errkal. He doesn't like paper as the feel and smell turns him sick.


I had forgotten that. :lol:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:33 am

YouGov wrote:One in five Labour voters would prefer the Tories stay in place for now over a general election

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New YouGov research conducted today (16th January 2019) shows that, of these outcomes, half of Britons (48%) would prefer for the Conservatives to remain in office for now. Only 29% think they should resign and that there should be a new general election, while the remaining 23% Don’t Know.

Unsurprisingly, 87% of those who voted Conservative in 2017 want to see the party continue in office – a mere 5% think they should stand down. While the majority of Labour voters (56%) want to see the government resign and call a general election, one in five (22%) want to see them stay in place.

Remain voters are near evenly split – 39% want to see the Tories stay, 43% prefer them to go. Leave voters are more emphatic in their support for continuity, with nearly two thirds (65%) backing the party to stay on.

After Theresa May’s Brexit deal was voted down by MPs the Prime Minister said that she would consult with “senior parliamentarians” to attempt to thrash out an acceptable Brexit deal. However many were surprised to find that she did not seem to include Jeremy Corbyn among this number.

Half of Britons (53%) believe that she should – including 40% of Conservative voters and a plurality (44%) of Leave voters. Just one in four members of the public (26%) don’t think the Labour leader should be included in attempts to navigate a path to a palatable Brexit deal.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:35 am

KK wrote:
YouGov wrote:One in five Labour voters would prefer the Tories stay in place for now over a general election

Image

New YouGov research conducted today (16th January 2019) shows that, of these outcomes, half of Britons (48%) would prefer for the Conservatives to remain in office for now. Only 29% think they should resign and that there should be a new general election, while the remaining 23% Don’t Know.

Unsurprisingly, 87% of those who voted Conservative in 2017 want to see the party continue in office – a mere 5% think they should stand down. While the majority of Labour voters (56%) want to see the government resign and call a general election, one in five (22%) want to see them stay in place.

Remain voters are near evenly split – 39% want to see the Tories stay, 43% prefer them to go. Leave voters are more emphatic in their support for continuity, with nearly two thirds (65%) backing the party to stay on.

After Theresa May’s Brexit deal was voted down by MPs the Prime Minister said that she would consult with “senior parliamentarians” to attempt to thrash out an acceptable Brexit deal. However many were surprised to find that she did not seem to include Jeremy Corbyn among this number.

Half of Britons (53%) believe that she should – including 40% of Conservative voters and a plurality (44%) of Leave voters. Just one in four members of the public (26%) don’t think the Labour leader should be included in attempts to navigate a path to a palatable Brexit deal.

Absolute madness. I would point out that the polls in the last general election, before the period of press impartiality kicked in, pointed to a Tory land slide. I would hope that a similar situation would arise with another GE. Corbyn has his issues, but if you look at his voting record throughout his entire career he comes across well. I genuinely believe he wants to make our society fairer and I would vote for him without hesitation. Maybe he won't achieve all that he aims for, but let Labour have a go for gods sake!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Drumstick » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:52 pm

The main reason I can think of for Labour voters preferring Tories to stay in power for the time being is to be able to hold them to account for the total mess Brexit is, was and will be in years to come. Kind of like how the Tories still keep (incorrectly) mentioning how Labour were responsible for the recession.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:00 pm

Drumstick wrote:The main reason I can think of for Labour voters preferring Tories to stay in power for the time being is to be able to hold them to account for the total mess Brexit is, was and will be in years to come. Kind of like how the Tories still keep (incorrectly) mentioning how Labour were responsible for the recession.

I hear your argument; Brexit is a poisoned chalice, this is surely the reason Maybot is still the leader of the Tories. It is not because she is stoic, diligent, disciplined, conscientious, it is because nobody in her party wants the strawberry floating gig. In a way I want the Tories to suffer the full consequences of the gooseberry fool storm that they have created, but if we forget Brexit for a moment there are other massive issues at stake: our NHS, schools, police, they are all in dire straits and we need a different government in power to save them. I am really conflicted here, I want to remain in the EU, but perhaps I want the Tories gone more, I'm really not sure. I like Corbyn and feel that he gets an undeserved hard time on here; he's given a really good account of himself in many of the recent PMQs, his voting record is solid and I like his policies. He does stumble on occasion in interviews, but in my opinion, his ideas are for the good. It's so weird that there is so much focus, from the press, on the opposition when the incumbents are actually making policy that is harmful. Many seem to have taken a cue from the main stream media and spend all their time bashing Corbyn, lets concentrate on the people who are actually in power for Christ's sake..... :x

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Saint of Killers » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:17 pm

MEPs back plans to cut funds for EU states who weaken rule of law

Vote sets up post-Brexit budget clash with countries accused of damaging democratic values

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... -eu-states

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:00 am

twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1086033714742738944


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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:04 am

I just can’t see what possible benefit there is from having another election. May and Corbyn are both so unpopular that we will just end up with another hung parliament all while the Brexit clock ticks down towards disaster.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by andretmzt » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:05 am

Lagamorph wrote:

twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1086033714742738944




In the election I will be voting as far-right as I can. I have had enough of the treasonous crowd currently inhabiting parliament.


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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:25 am

Moggy wrote:I just can’t see what possible benefit there is from having another election. May and Corbyn are both so unpopular that we will just end up with another hung parliament all while the Brexit clock ticks down towards disaster.

We'll end up with either another hung parliament but where the Tories and DUP can form a government, or just an outright Tory majority.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:31 am

Lagamorph wrote:
Moggy wrote:I just can’t see what possible benefit there is from having another election. May and Corbyn are both so unpopular that we will just end up with another hung parliament all while the Brexit clock ticks down towards disaster.

We'll end up with either another hung parliament but where the Tories and DUP can form a government, or just an outright Tory majority.


I don’t think the Tories will get a majority.

A Tory/DUP agreement leaves us exactly where we are. The only other alternative is a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP coalition which will be chaos (as David Cameron warned us ;) ) but we would probably get another referendum out of it. Two probably as the SNP would demand another Scottish vote.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:54 pm

Moggy wrote:The only other alternative is a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP coalition which will be chaos (as David Cameron warned us ;)
We couldn't possibly have chaos, no, no, no, that would be just awful, imagine what chaos would be like... :?

OK, I realise you might be joking, but just in case you're not...

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:56 pm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-vote-tory-lib-dems-labour-brexit-theresa-may-a7697991.html?fbclid=IwAR0lUK_00BWwZpV3YtP_spX0kKvk84DyA5QjgVlgg39YJ_8jeBWw6AVymho

This is one of the reasons I support Corbyn, of course he's having a hard time uniting the party, it's still full of Tory light Blairites.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:04 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:The only other alternative is a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP coalition which will be chaos (as David Cameron warned us ;)
We couldn't possibly have chaos, no, no, no, that would be just awful, imagine what chaos would be like... :?

OK, I realise you might be joking, but just in case you're not...


I might be joking? I thought the quip about Cameron and the ;) might have given that away.

But I was only half joking. It would be chaos and it would collapse. But it would be better than what we have now.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:05 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tony-blair-vote-tory-lib-dems-labour-brexit-theresa-may-a7697991.html?fbclid=IwAR0lUK_00BWwZpV3YtP_spX0kKvk84DyA5QjgVlgg39YJ_8jeBWw6AVymho

This is one of the reasons I support Corbyn, of course he's having a hard time uniting the party, it's still full of Tory light Blairites.


You support Corbyn because you dislike Blair and think people that disagree with him/you are Tory light?

Ok. Enjoy perpetual opposition until you learn to compromise.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:40 pm

Guardian wrote:Home Office refuses to let great-grandparents remain in UK

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... main-in-uk

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:48 pm

KK wrote:
Guardian wrote:Home Office refuses to let great-grandparents remain in UK

The Home Office is trying to separate a couple from their four British children, 11 grandchildren and a great-grandchild by forcing them to return to Iran.

The 83-year-old great-grandfather and 73-year-old great-grandmother, who bought their flat in Edinburgh in 1978, live near their close-knit family and depend heavily on their daily support. But they also act as co-parents to one of their grandchildren, a teenager with severe autism who requires constant supervision. Their help enables the boy’s mother – a single parent – to continue her work as an NHS nurse.

Separation of the teenager from his grandparents, Mozaffar Saberi and Rezvan Habibimarand, would be extremely detrimental to him and also to his mother, the couple’s daughter, according to a chartered psychologist with expertise in children with autism, who has written a report provided to the Home Office.

“Going back to Iran would be the end for us,” said Habibimarand. “We have so many illnesses that it would not just be physically the end for us, because there is not the level of healthcare we need in Iran, but emotionally the end too: there’s no one in Iran for us to go back to.”

Navid Saberi, the couple’s son, said: “With no exaggeration, sending them back to Iran would be a death sentence. The day-to-day help and support my siblings and I give our parents isn’t available to be purchased in Iran, even if we could somehow get the necessary money into the country – which is not at all guaranteed because of the sanctions. The distress of having to live alone would mean my parents’ end would come very soon.”

The couple have made repeated human rights applications to remain in the UK since 2013 but the Home Office has refused all of them. Their final appeal is due to be heard soon.

John Vassiliou, a partner at McGill & Co Solicitors, said: “The Home Office does not give any weight to the relationships with their adult children and contrary to the conclusions of the independent expert, and without so much as an interview with any member of the family, took the view that their autistic grandson could adapt to their absence.

“They also said that the child’s mother ‘can seek assistance from social services who can provide specialist care for her son’. It seems that the Home Office would prefer that someone quit their job and resort to burdening the public purse rather than allowing the child’s grandparents to stay and help out.”

Although the couple raised their children in the UK, they never sought British citizenship. But because they originally came to the UK as visitors and then made a human rights claim to remain, it is highly likely that – even if their health allowed it – any future visit visa would be refused.

“The consequence is that they would be unable to see their family again unless the family all travelled to Iran to see them,” Vassiliou said. “That comes with its own problems, especially for their autistic grandson.”

Prior to July 2012 – just nine months before the couple made their application – an adult relative’s acute need of emotional, physical or even financial support from their UK-based adult children would have been enough for them to be granted visas. But the then home secretary, Theresa May, introduced sweeping changes to the immigration rules to reduce net migration” to the UK, which included a tightening of what is known as the “adult dependant relative” rule.

“The consequence of this tightening is that it has become almost impossible for any British citizen or settled person to bring their adult parents in to the UK to live with them,” Vassiliou said. “The criteria that have to be satisfied are so severe that I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to meet them.”

The couple’s upcoming appeal is based on the claim that the Home Office has failed to properly take into consideration the best interests of the autistic child, has never spoken to any member of the family and has found grounds for refusal by equating the couple’s faltering health due to old age with an inability to act as co-parents to the child on an emotional level.

The refusal letter, Vassiliou said, makes “bewildering statements”, such as: “It is noted that you own the house you reside in Edinburgh, therefore you could choose to allow your daughter and grandson to live there on your return to Iran, which then would not impact on your grandson as you claim he visits you there every day.”

Vassiliou added: “In all of this, the government seems to have completely lost sight of the fact that these are two very elderly people with nobody in Iran, and with an entire family spanning three generations in the UK. It seems inhumane to us that such a matter is even up for debate.”

A spokesperson for the Home Office said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... main-in-uk


This government are such a bunch of vile horrible banana splits. And this is all the fault of Theresa May and her hostile environment policy.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:58 pm

twitter.com/stephenkb/status/1086251712606863360


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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:01 pm

Quick, someone vox pop Brenda.

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