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Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:12 pm
by Lex-Man
Winckle wrote:lex-man wrote:BID0 wrote:lex-man wrote:Still a better choice than the current selection.
Yes Tory lite. What could go wrong
You advocate filling parliament up with people who have no interest in being there beyond the pay packets they can get for consulting during and after their term and thus not representing you?
Well it's better than Tory extra strength and I'm really worried where we'd end up under Corbyn.
Wow what's it like being really worried about social democratic policies?
I'm actually quite like his policies, I'm just worried about the method's he'll use to implement them. I don't think he'd be that bothered if he bankrupted a lot of companies and left people out of work as long as he got to implement his plans. He just totally lacks any kind of pragmatism. Maybe I'm wrong, but we'll probably get to find out at the next election if things keep going the way they are.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:15 am
by Alvin Flummux
Let's be honest, the Tories are speedboating the country toward a terrific sized waterfall anyway, so what's the harm in trying out Corbyn's policies before there isn't a country left to govern?
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:25 am
by Rex Kramer
Alvin Flummux wrote:Let's be honest, the Tories are speedboating the country toward a terrific sized waterfall anyway, so what's the harm in trying out Corbyn's policies before there isn't a country left to govern?
Because he's got little actual chance of being elected and is therefore just pushing us towards a Tory government anyway?
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:07 am
by Moggy
Rex Kramer wrote:Alvin Flummux wrote:Let's be honest, the Tories are speedboating the country toward a terrific sized waterfall anyway, so what's the harm in trying out Corbyn's policies before there isn't a country left to govern?
Because he's got little actual chance of being elected and is therefore just pushing us towards a Tory government anyway?
That's my main worry. I don't like Corbyn much but fully accept he is better than the Tory alternative. But he is not getting through to the majority of the country.
It's worrying that with the worst government in living memory, Corbyn is still trailing in the polls. He should be well ahead of May, not behind.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:39 am
by Winckle
Brexit is the divider here, it's a historically unique situation in modern Britain. Leave voters do not trust Labour will not renege on Brexit, so they are wedded to the Tories until at least Brexit has passed.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:47 am
by Moggy
Winckle wrote:Brexit is the divider here, it's a historically unique situation in modern Britain. Leave voters do not trust Labour will not renege on Brexit, so they are wedded to the Tories until at least Brexit has passed.
That might be true when it comes to Labour v Tory polls, but it doesn’t make sense when it comes to Corbyn v May polls. Corbyn is well known as a Eurosceptic (if not an outright Leaver) and May is well known as a Remainer. The Chequers deal nonsense should have destroyed her ratings amongst Leavers, but she is still consistently polling above Corbyn.
If the worst Prime Minister in living memory has higher approval ratings than the opposition, then there is a serious problem.
The last election of course showed that on election day itself people can vote differently, but I wouldn’t be too sure that Corbyn can ever beat the Tories. Especially if they dump May and get a new leader bounce in approval.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:51 am
by Lagamorph
At the last election the youth vote for some reason were convinced Corbyn would stop Brexit and so got behind him on that basis.
I don't think there's much chance of that happening again.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:54 am
by more heat than light
I'm hoping both parties take a hammering at the next election. We need a genuine shake-up in politics to stop it becoming a binary choice between eating gooseberry fool, and eating a slightly different flavour of gooseberry fool.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:57 am
by Moggy
more heat than light wrote:I'm hoping both parties take a hammering at the next election. We need a genuine shake-up in politics to stop it becoming a binary choice between eating gooseberry fool, and eating a slightly different flavour of gooseberry fool.
Even with an absolute hammering (which isn't going to happen) we will still end up with Labour and the Tories being the first and second parties. Nobody is going to vote Green, Independent or Lib Dem in enough numbers to make any difference.
We laugh at America for being a two party state, but England and Wales are just as bad.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:01 am
by more heat than light
Yeah I'm thinking long-term here. Smaller parties perform ahead of expectation next time around and maybe people start to think that it isn't such a wasted vote after all. This leads to better performances the time after that.
Wishful thinking probably, and it does mean that UKIP may once again find a voice, but anything's gotta be better than this shower of shite.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:06 am
by Moggy
more heat than light wrote:Yeah I'm thinking long-term here. Smaller parties perform ahead of expectation next time around and maybe people start to think that it isn't such a wasted vote after all. This leads to better performances the time after that.
Wishful thinking probably, and it does mean that UKIP may once again find a voice, but anything's gotta be better than this shower of shite.
For all of their voice, UKIP never managed more than 2 MPs (to be fair they did get millions of votes and our system screwed them over).
The only real alternatives are the Lib Dems and/or the Greens, but I don’t think people will trust the Lib Dems again for a long time and the Greens just don’t have the support (other than Caroline Lucas
).
The next election will be billed as “STOP THE TORIES!!” by Labour and as “STOP CORBYN!” by the Tories. The other parties will barely be an afterthought in the minds of most voters.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:07 am
by Hexx
Lagamorph wrote:At the last election the youth vote for some reason were convinced Corbyn would stop Brexit and so got behind him on that basis.
I don't think there's much chance of that happening again.
No lots of his supporters still think that (or "What else could he do but follow Leave campaigns demands")
The idea he could be wrong/make a mistake is literally incomprehensible to them
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:15 am
by BID0
The Green Party are in the process of putting together a shadow cabinet now with the intention of becoming the 3rd party now that the Lib Dems have became irrelevant.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:17 am
by more heat than light
Moggy wrote:The next election will be billed as “STOP THE TORIES!!” by Labour and as “STOP CORBYN!” by the Tories. The other parties will barely be an afterthought in the minds of most voters.
I know you're right, like I said it's just wishful thinking really. What ever happened to that 'centrist party' formed from disgruntled Labour and Tory MPs that was being mooted about at one point?
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:20 am
by Moggy
BID0 wrote:The Green Party are in the process of putting together a shadow cabinet now with the intention of becoming the 3rd party now that the Lib Dems have became irrelevant.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:33 am
by Drumstick
Lagamorph wrote:At the last election the youth vote for some reason were convinced Corbyn would stop Brexit and so got behind him on that basis.
I don't think there's much chance of that happening again.
I disagree. Although largely against Brexit, the youth of the country are going to be angry at the Tories for a long time and will vote Labour as the lesser of two evils.
I'd really love it if the Greens could become a relevant party but Caroline isn't going to be able to do it all by herself.
If she for whatever reason decided to join Labour today and they made her their leader, they'd win the next election. Comfortably.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:34 am
by Hypes
more heat than light wrote:Moggy wrote:The next election will be billed as “STOP THE TORIES!!” by Labour and as “STOP CORBYN!” by the Tories. The other parties will barely be an afterthought in the minds of most voters.
I know you're right, like I said it's just wishful thinking really. What ever happened to that 'centrist party' formed from disgruntled Labour and Tory MPs that was being mooted about at one point?
They know it wouldn't get anywhere
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:52 am
by Garth
I bet a new centrist party would calculate that they'd need to appeal to the racist old reliable boomer voters to get anywhere in England, and would decide to end up backing Brexit with stricter immigration laws anyway.
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:07 am
by Knoyleo
twitter.com/UKDemockery/status/1053091402794573825
Re: Politics Thread 5
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:09 am
by Tafdolphin
twitter.com/WorksWithWords/status/1053221050127994882
