Politics Thread 5

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:30 am

Why don't they move their interviews to somewhere within the parliamentary estate. That would stop any protestor from disrupting broadcasts. Even when May is doing a speech outside Downing Street you can hear people yelling abuse through the gates.

Edit: I dare say the BBC are showing so faux outrage, the current pic they are using of Soubry on their headline makes her look terrible.

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Dowbocop » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:53 am

captain red dog wrote:Why don't they move their interviews to somewhere within the parliamentary estate. That would stop any protestor from disrupting broadcasts. Even when May is doing a speech outside Downing Street you can hear people yelling abuse through the gates.

Edit: I dare say the BBC are showing so faux outrage, the current pic they are using of Soubry on their headline makes her look terrible.

Not sure there's space, if you think it'd be the Beeb, ITV, Channel 4, 5 News and Sky, and I imagine you'd have to give them all the same access in among the building works.

Those yellow vest fools should've been banned from Westminster long ago and had a restraining order put on them against MPs like Soubry and Cooper. We've had one politician murdered, one conspiracy to murder, and I'd bet there's another plot in the pipeline for Soubry somewhere or other, it makes me absolutely furious.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:05 am

I agree those protests were ugly but it doesn't seem they actually broke the law? I'm reluctant to say they should ban protestors, that sets a dangerous precident in my opinion and would clamp down as much on the left, and given the government and media are already largely right wing, I think that would be terrible.

Parliament is absolutely massive despite what they say, they can find room somewhere on the estate for the broadcast companies and set up small interview studios. It seems to be a distinctly modern British tradition to do these broadcasts from Parliament Square. It just seems unnessessary to me and it has become a flash point for people trying to get on TV or in a viral YouTube clip.

Since Brexit has really heated up, it feels like BBC and Sky are almost permanently based on Parliament Square and with the greatest will in the world, if you go out in public you will come across absolute morons.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by lex-man » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:07 am

Dowbocop wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Why don't they move their interviews to somewhere within the parliamentary estate. That would stop any protestor from disrupting broadcasts. Even when May is doing a speech outside Downing Street you can hear people yelling abuse through the gates.

Edit: I dare say the BBC are showing so faux outrage, the current pic they are using of Soubry on their headline makes her look terrible.

Not sure there's space, if you think it'd be the Beeb, ITV, Channel 4, 5 News and Sky, and I imagine you'd have to give them all the same access in among the building works.

Those yellow vest fools should've been banned from Westminster long ago and had a restraining order put on them against MPs like Soubry and Cooper. We've had one politician murdered, one conspiracy to murder, and I'd bet there's another plot in the pipeline for Soubry somewhere or other, it makes me absolutely furious.


Yeah, I'm quite surprised they haven't caused any violence yet.

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Dowbocop » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:29 am

captain red dog wrote:I agree those protests were ugly but it doesn't seem they actually broke the law? I'm reluctant to say they should ban protestors, that sets a dangerous precident in my opinion and would clamp down as much on the left, and given the government and media are already largely right wing, I think that would be terrible.

Parliament is absolutely massive despite what they say, they can find room somewhere on the estate for the broadcast companies and set up small interview studios. It seems to be a distinctly modern British tradition to do these broadcasts from Parliament Square. It just seems unnessessary to me and it has become a flash point for people trying to get on TV or in a viral YouTube clip.

Since Brexit has really heated up, it feels like BBC and Sky are almost permanently based on Parliament Square and with the greatest will in the world, if you go out in public you will come across absolute morons.

I'm no expert on it but I'd say the way people get harangued is pushing the boundaries of public order. Holding flags or shouting over broadcasts is a different thing.

It's to late to move in a way, if anyone goes behind the walls it'll be claimed as a victory against the biased Europhile MSM.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:36 am

Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am

captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:51 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:01 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.


Nobody is taking the words at face value. It’s what the words represent that is the issue.

The venom with which the words are said and the jostling and harassment of people is the problem.

There is little doubt in my mind that legitimate protest crosses over into a public order offence when a group of people follow somebody, crowd around them all while shouting abuse at them.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Heskimo » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:25 pm

I feel the lines like "if it's a war you want, you've got a war," and calling people "fair game" in relation to that, are the most directly threatening parts that tip it over the edge of just being standard heckling and name calling (might be paraphrasing a touch, just heard the tape on the radio earlier), alongside the intimidating behaviour. It's one thing to be able to protest people or call them Nazis or traitors for their opinions, but crossing the line to being genuinely threatening is where action should probably be taken.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:26 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.


Nobody is taking the words at face value. It’s what the words represent that is the issue.

The venom with which the words are said and the jostling and harassment of people is the problem.

There is little doubt in my mind that legitimate protest crosses over into a public order offence when a group of people follow somebody, crowd around them all while shouting abuse at them.

Yes but then you would be in the territory where those Scottish protestors against Farage would need to be arrested for jostling or saying things in venom. Or the guy who confronted Rees-Mogg and yelled abuse at his kids.

Its an uncomfortable situation and I think where possible the media interviews should be done somewhere a bit safer. MPs probably need to look at their security as a whole and accept that, just as the rest of society has had to make changes for their own security and safety, they may need to do the same.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by DML » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:34 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.


Nobody is taking the words at face value. It’s what the words represent that is the issue.

The venom with which the words are said and the jostling and harassment of people is the problem.

There is little doubt in my mind that legitimate protest crosses over into a public order offence when a group of people follow somebody, crowd around them all while shouting abuse at them.

Yes but then you would be in the territory where those Scottish protestors against Farage would need to be arrested for jostling or saying things in venom. Or the guy who confronted Rees-Mogg and yelled abuse at his kids.

Its an uncomfortable situation and I think where possible the media interviews should be done somewhere a bit safer. MPs probably need to look at their security as a whole and accept that, just as the rest of society has had to make changes for their own security and safety, they may need to do the same.


Just hold everyone to account. Too long people have been acting like this and not being called out on it. Its time for it to stop full stop.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:37 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.


Nobody is taking the words at face value. It’s what the words represent that is the issue.

The venom with which the words are said and the jostling and harassment of people is the problem.

There is little doubt in my mind that legitimate protest crosses over into a public order offence when a group of people follow somebody, crowd around them all while shouting abuse at them.

Yes but then you would be in the territory where those Scottish protestors against Farage would need to be arrested for jostling or saying things in venom. Or the guy who confronted Rees-Mogg and yelled abuse at his kids.

Its an uncomfortable situation and I think where possible the media interviews should be done somewhere a bit safer. MPs probably need to look at their security as a whole and accept that, just as the rest of society has had to make changes for their own security and safety, they may need to do the same.


Each case is different. I don’t remember what the Scottish protesters did/said to Farage. I disagreed with the Rees-Mogg guy, but he was only saying “your daddy is a horrible man”, he wasn’t being threatening or overly verbally abusive like the people in the Soubry and Jones incidents.

I don’t think MPs should have to increase their security, the police ought to be stopping people jostling/crowding them and action should be taken if people are screaming "TRAITOR" at democratically elected MPs. And if that involves arrests, then they should get on with arresting the arseholes.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Squinty » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:15 pm

These banana splits are just looking to become the next Little Tommy.

Arrest them if they persist with getting up everyone's gooseberry fool. Starve them of funds and a platform.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:32 pm

Squinty wrote:These banana splits are just looking to become the next Little Tommy.

Arrest them if they persist with getting up everyone's gooseberry fool. Starve them of funds and a platform.


They saw how famous and rich Yaxley-Lennon became and are following the same playbook.

They whip up the stupid, get themselves arrested and then watch the money (“donate to support free speech!!”) roll in. And the gullible and stupid fools in this country fall over themselves to support these cretins.

Arseholes.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Squinty » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:34 pm


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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:39 pm

Squinty wrote:https://twitter.com/JGoddard230616/status/1082693502134304769?s=19

Oi oi




Damn those British companies like PayPal and Facebook. :slol:

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:50 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.


Nobody is taking the words at face value. It’s what the words represent that is the issue.

The venom with which the words are said and the jostling and harassment of people is the problem.

There is little doubt in my mind that legitimate protest crosses over into a public order offence when a group of people follow somebody, crowd around them all while shouting abuse at them.

Yes but then you would be in the territory where those Scottish protestors against Farage would need to be arrested for jostling or saying things in venom. Or the guy who confronted Rees-Mogg and yelled abuse at his kids.

Its an uncomfortable situation and I think where possible the media interviews should be done somewhere a bit safer. MPs probably need to look at their security as a whole and accept that, just as the rest of society has had to make changes for their own security and safety, they may need to do the same.


Each case is different. I don’t remember what the Scottish protesters did/said to Farage. I disagreed with the Rees-Mogg guy, but he was only saying “your daddy is a horrible man”, he wasn’t being threatening or overly verbally abusive like the people in the Soubry and Jones incidents.

I don’t think MPs should have to increase their security, the police ought to be stopping people jostling/crowding them and action should be taken if people are screaming "TRAITOR" at democratically elected MPs. And if that involves arrests, then they should get on with arresting the arseholes.

Whilst I disagree and find it a bit hyperbolic to scream traitor at an MP, that and being called a Nazi aren't grounds for arrests. The footage the BBC showed on the 5 o clock news with Soubry was unpleasant behaviour but I would struggle to find grounds to arrest anyone. Haven't seen the footage where they called her scum though, that might change my mind.

We need to be very, very careful here because this can lead down a dangerous path with protests. "Tory Scum" is like a catchphrase at a lot of protests and we'd end up with custody centres at bursting point!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:54 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Possibly, but I doubt the logic of holding those interviews in public as there have been interruptions for ages from people yelling all sorts of abuse. It's quite distracting when watching these interviews anyway and doesn't make great TV.

These protestors generally aren't actually stepping over a legal line it seems. Even the Owen Jones footage, whilst not behaviour I condone, it didn't appear they did anything actually illegal?


Just off the top of my head I can think of two ways they have probably broken the law.

There are restrictions on protests within 1km of Parliament Square.

Using threatening, abusive or insulting words, plus behaviour causing fear or provoking violence would fall under a Public Order Offence.

I'd have to look into the definition of it a bit more but that would be quite a clamp down on protests if you took those words at face value.

Insulting words for example. Is calling someone "scum" or a "Nazi" really an offence? Because if it is, then a lot of protests would be shut down.


Nobody is taking the words at face value. It’s what the words represent that is the issue.

The venom with which the words are said and the jostling and harassment of people is the problem.

There is little doubt in my mind that legitimate protest crosses over into a public order offence when a group of people follow somebody, crowd around them all while shouting abuse at them.

Yes but then you would be in the territory where those Scottish protestors against Farage would need to be arrested for jostling or saying things in venom. Or the guy who confronted Rees-Mogg and yelled abuse at his kids.

Its an uncomfortable situation and I think where possible the media interviews should be done somewhere a bit safer. MPs probably need to look at their security as a whole and accept that, just as the rest of society has had to make changes for their own security and safety, they may need to do the same.


Each case is different. I don’t remember what the Scottish protesters did/said to Farage. I disagreed with the Rees-Mogg guy, but he was only saying “your daddy is a horrible man”, he wasn’t being threatening or overly verbally abusive like the people in the Soubry and Jones incidents.

I don’t think MPs should have to increase their security, the police ought to be stopping people jostling/crowding them and action should be taken if people are screaming "TRAITOR" at democratically elected MPs. And if that involves arrests, then they should get on with arresting the arseholes.

Whilst I disagree and find it a bit hyperbolic to scream traitor at an MP, that and being called a Nazi aren't grounds for arrests. The footage the BBC showed on the 5 o clock news with Soubry was unpleasant behaviour but I would struggle to find grounds to arrest anyone. Haven't seen the footage where they called her scum though, that might change my mind.

We need to be very, very careful here because this can lead down a dangerous path with protests. "Tory Scum" is like a catchphrase at a lot of protests and we'd end up with custody centres at bursting point!


There’s a difference between shouting “Tory Scum” at a protest and a group crowding around a Tory MP to scream “TORY SCUM” in their faces.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Rocsteady » Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:51 pm

What's your solution crd?

We can't let our elected members be surrounded by random groups in the street screaming violent slogans in their face. It's absurd.

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