Politics Thread 5

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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Karl_ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:46 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:tl;dr strawberry float facists

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When did u take this

CATGIRLS OF THE WORLD UNITE! WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:51 pm

One of the only examples I can think of of an extremist being “taken apart” due to a TV appearance is Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time. That is held up as an example of how exposing them is a way of delegitimising them.

But the Nick Griffin example isn’t true. He might have “lost” on the show, but his party gained MASSIVELY in strength following it.

2005: BNP received 192,746 total votes

2009: Nick Griffin appears on Question Time

2010: BNP received 563,743 total votes

The BNP mostly collapsed after that due to infighting and the rise of UKIP (Farage having an almost permanent seat on Question Time helped there as well), but giving Nick Griffin airtime led to a large increase in BNP votes.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Karl_ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:54 pm

Moggy wrote:He might have “lost” on the show, but his party gained MASSIVELY in strength following it.

This is it. You can't debate someone who is "sick of experts" and thinks the "liberal lefty elite" is out to brainwash them with "political correctness gone mad" or whatever other nonsense; owning them only makes their opinions worse.

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:13 pm

Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:tl;dr strawberry float facists

Image

When did u take this

CATGIRLS OF THE WORLD UNITE! WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS


If in 1917 the working class were like dogs, beaten, malnourished and eager to break free from their master's cruel chains, then the modern day working class are like cats, blinded by self-importance, woefully ignorant of their position in the family's power structure, and given just enough freedom to walk out in front of the BMW 3-Series that is global late stage capitalism.

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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Karl_ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:19 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:tl;dr strawberry float facists

Image

When did u take this

CATGIRLS OF THE WORLD UNITE! WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS

If in 1917 the working class were like dogs, beaten, malnourished and eager to break free from their master's cruel chains, then the modern day working class are like cats, blinded by self-importance, woefully ignorant of their position in the family's power structure, and given just enough freedom to walk out in front of the BMW 3-Series that is global late stage capitalism.

In this analogy the left are raccoons watching candyfloss dissolve in a river

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:25 pm

Suddenly my namesake makes sense

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Karl_ » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:31 pm

Orange is a mix of red, for socialism, and yellow, for THE COWARDICE OF TODAY'S SNOWFLAKE YOUTH

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Knoyleo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:33 pm

Prototype. :fp:

Given that we're already posting Contrapoints...


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Hexx
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hexx » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:47 pm

Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:tl;dr strawberry float facists

Image

When did u take this

CATGIRLS OF THE WORLD UNITE! WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BUT OUR CHAINS

If in 1917 the working class were like dogs, beaten, malnourished and eager to break free from their master's cruel chains, then the modern day working class are like cats, blinded by self-importance, woefully ignorant of their position in the family's power structure, and given just enough freedom to walk out in front of the BMW 3-Series that is global late stage capitalism.

In this analogy the left are raccoons watching candyfloss dissolve in a river


WHY WOULD YOU EVEN BRING THIS UP!?!?!?!

:cry:

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ianfianf
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by ianfianf » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:54 pm

Knoyleo wrote:Prototype. :fp:


Great point well made. Your comment only further backs up my point that immediately dismissing people because you disagree with them does absolutely nothing. 

At least Moggy was able to formulate a counter argument which I believe included some good points.

Edit: I keep accidently PMing people responses instead of quoting them :slol:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Knoyleo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:55 pm

Prototype wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:Prototype. :fp:


Great point well made. Your comment only further backs up my point that immediately dismissing people because you disagree with them does absolutely nothing. 

At least Moggy was able to formulate a counter argument which I believe included some good points.

Edit: I keep accidently PMing people responses instead of quoting them :slol:

Did you watch the video?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:56 pm

Prototype wrote:Edit: I keep accidently PMing people responses instead of quoting them :slol:


That is not an excuse for the photo you sent me. Jesus Christ man, get that looked at, it is not normal. :dread:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:06 pm

I find these arguments quite difficult because I agree that by airing an opinion it will grow in popularity. Look what's happened to Flat Earthers recently, but then I'm slightly worried about banning people from expressing their views as people should be aloud to express their opinion. Also I think there is something in the idea that left to their own devices out of the sight on mainstream attention they will still grow in numbers, through sites like four chan and storm watch, so we need some mainstream attention to counter their ideas.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hexx » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 pm

lex-man wrote:I find these arguments quite difficult because I agree that by airing an opinion it will grow in popularity. Look what's happened to Flat Earthers recently, but then I'm slightly worried about banning people from expressing their views as people should be aloud to express their opinion.


There's a big difference from "You can't say that" and "We won't give you a national platform to say it on"

Or to repost the oft-used;

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Errkal » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:19 pm

Hexx wrote:
lex-man wrote:I find these arguments quite difficult because I agree that by airing an opinion it will grow in popularity. Look what's happened to Flat Earthers recently, but then I'm slightly worried about banning people from expressing their views as people should be aloud to express their opinion.


There's a big difference from "You can't say that" and "We won't give you a national platform to say it on"

Or to repost the oft-used;

Image


SHut up snowflake, you shouldnt be talking at all, by talking you are stopping my freedom of speech which is my right! So shut up you leftiest snoflake scum!

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:19 pm

Hexx wrote:
lex-man wrote:I find these arguments quite difficult because I agree that by airing an opinion it will grow in popularity. Look what's happened to Flat Earthers recently, but then I'm slightly worried about banning people from expressing their views as people should be aloud to express their opinion.


There's a big difference from "You can't say that" and "We won't give you a national platform to say it on"

Or to repost the oft-used;

Image



Sure but without challenging their views they'll be able to grow at a slower rate. People like Alex Jones reached a huge audience before coming to mainstream prominence. Islamic terror groups have managed to grow in size without getting representatives into the mainstream.

I think it's a hard balancing act. People shouldn't be given their own radio show but we need ways to challenge them.

Amusement under late capitalism is the prolongation of work.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:30 pm

lex-man wrote:
Hexx wrote:
lex-man wrote:I find these arguments quite difficult because I agree that by airing an opinion it will grow in popularity. Look what's happened to Flat Earthers recently, but then I'm slightly worried about banning people from expressing their views as people should be aloud to express their opinion.


There's a big difference from "You can't say that" and "We won't give you a national platform to say it on"

Or to repost the oft-used;

Image



Sure but without challenging their views they'll be able to grow at a slower rate. People like Alex Jones reached a huge audience before coming to mainstream prominence. Islamic terror groups have managed to grow in size without getting representatives into the mainstream.

I think it's a hard balancing act. People shouldn't be given their own radio show but we need ways to challenge them.


Alex Jones had a syndicated radio show that was broadcast to millions of Americans.

Islamic hate preachers were given airtime on most mainstream TV channels and their view publicised in the newspapers.

I don’t agree with banning people from speaking but I see no reason for the BBC, Sky, Youtube or Facebook to give them a platform to air those views.

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ianfianf
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by ianfianf » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:40 pm

Alex jones has been outed as the nutcase he is.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Preezy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:42 pm

Does that cartoon apply in the UK with our iffy laws?

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:44 pm

lex-man wrote:I think it's a hard balancing act. People shouldn't be given their own radio show but we need ways to challenge them.


Sure, society does need to actively challenge extremist views. That response should be:

1) Proportional to the support of the extremist views; and
2) Directed towards those holding or at risk of holding extremist views

In doing so you can aim to minimise exposure and any creeping normalisation of those views.

At school when I learned about World War II, it wasn't necessary to listen to a Nazi debating with the teacher in order to "challenge" that ideology. I was still educated about fascism and why it is a bad thing, without any platform needing to be given - and I think it probably a much more effective method than had the teacher given time to hear a "debate".

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