Politics Thread 5

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TV Dinner
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by TV Dinner » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:26 pm

Still unsure how stopping people from using the DLR and pushing them to Uber was supposed to help the environment.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:31 pm

Something about making an omelette.

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Garth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Garth » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:46 pm






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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Garth » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:01 pm


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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:06 pm

Garth wrote:





A few years ago I wouldn't have believed that UKIP could get even worse.

They sure proved me wrong.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by SugarDave » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:39 pm

Carl has the most punchable face I've ever seen.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:45 pm

It looks like this is going to completely sink the party sadly it looks like the Brexit party is hovering up most of their supporters

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:50 pm

Lex-Man wrote:It looks like this is going to completely sink the party sadly it looks like the Brexit party is hovering up most of their supporters


UKIP are just the new BNP/NF. They will continue to become more extreme until they become irrelevant.

The Brexit Party are the new UKIP, xenophobic pricks but with enough sense to try and hide their worst aspects. If they want to survive as a party long term then they better hope Brexit is cancelled. ;)

It’s a damn shame that Remainers didn’t think to register “The Brexit Party” name a year or two ago. It’s a catchy name that will attract votes even if people don’t know anything else about it.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Jenuall » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:54 pm

Hopefully the media don't just focus on belittling UKIP (who as stated are basically dead now) and let The Brexit Party off without the same level of attention.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by BID0 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:59 pm

KK wrote:David Blunket writing in today’s Daily Mail:

Sorry, but I don't need any lectures from any Johnny-come-lately on the urgent need to tackle climate change.

Eleven years ago I was one of more than 600 MPs who voted to pass the Climate Change Act, committing Britain to slash carbon emissions by 80 per cent on 1990 levels by 2050. I am committed to much more ambitious action in future.

But by causing mayhem in London's transport system over the past three days, the group Extinction Rebellion has not won my sympathy. On the contrary, it has left me feeling outraged.

I feel angry and irritated that it has chosen to make people's lives a misery. By yesterday, because of road blockages, 55 bus routes had been suspended, inconveniencing 500,000 passengers.

While the group pulled back from trying to close the Tube network, it has not withdrawn the threat — saying that it wanted to see how yesterday's disruption of the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) went before making a decision on whether to block the Underground system.

By yesterday the police had failed substantially to clear any of the areas affected by the protests. Attempting to move protesters from one area to another, as they have been trying to do, simply doesn't work.

Last night, they appeared to be making some attempt to clear protesters from Oxford Circus, Waterloo Bridge and Parliament Square, yet these vital thoroughfares have been blocked for three days, which is simply not acceptable when people need to go about their business.

As Home Secretary between 2001 and 2004 I had to deal with the anti-globalisation protests and the Reclaim the Streets movement. I had to make decisions as to how far you allow these protests to go.

What I learned was that you had to be tough. The full force of the law needs to be used against those who have been warned and yet who persist with their anti-social protests.

Over the past few days, police have arrested more than 340 people, yet many of them have been released and allowed to go straight back to join the protests.

The protesters are treating it as some kind of game. What we need is a firm hand and decisive action. Without it, these anarchists will see all the publicity they are enjoying and will engage in this kind of action again and again.

It is hardly as if the police have had no warning about these protests. Extinction Rebellion has been blocking streets and bridges since November. It has repeated its tactics on a regular basis.

On this occasion, police held meetings in advance with the protesters. They knew who was behind the protests, where and when they were going to be held and the methods the protesters were going to use.

So why have the Met not provided a stronger response as the great metropolis of London has ground to a halt? And where is the Home Secretary?

The problem with anarchists — which is what Extinction Rebellion are — is that by disrupting the lives and wellbeing of their fellow men and women they damage the cause they are trying to advance.

Instead of engaging in debate and dialogue they have turned against them the very people they are trying to persuade.

They are using tactics — bullying and intimidation — which in any other context they would condemn. They have disrupted emergency services and put lives at risk.

Extinction Rebellion says it has no option but to cause chaos because we are facing a climate 'emergency'.

Yet over the past three days, as ever in a large city, there have been dozens of genuine emergencies which have required ambulances, fire engines and police cars.

The actions of the anarchists have made it much more difficult for emergency vehicles to respond and have diverted valuable police resources.

Not only that, their actions have resulted in deeply perverse outcomes. They claim to be campaigning to cut pollution, but by choking up a capital city and causing traffic jams, they have achieved exactly the opposite: increasing pollution and damaging the environment.

You don't have to be highly intelligent to work out that, by blocking bus routes and disrupting trains, you discourage people from using public transport and force them to take to their cars to find a way round the jams.

Bankers who normally commute by DLR were reported to be resorting to taxis to get around — spewing out diesel fumes in the process.

As the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said: 'It is absolutely crucial to get more people using public transport, as well as walking and cycling, if we are to tackle this climate emergency.'

Extinction Rebellion has launched its assault not on the politicians it is trying to address — the Commons and the Lords are both in recess this week — but the poor men and women who are just trying to make a living.

Many fear their Easter breaks are in jeopardy. Businesses face severe losses. According to West End shops, hundreds of millions of pounds could be lost to the London economy.

These anarchists seem to think they own the issue of climate change, yet they have blithely ignored the serious efforts that are being made to reduce pollution more generally. Last week, for example, the first phase of London's new ultra-low emissions zone came into effect, banning the most polluting vehicles from the city centre.

There has been huge investment in renewable energy, improving insulation in buildings, promoting hybrid and electric cars and tackling carbon emissions in many other ways. UK carbon emissions, according to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, have fallen by 44 per cent since 1990.

These are achievements which Extinction Rebellion should surely be praising. Yet the anarchists ignore them, and instead try to make out that governments, over many years, have done nothing, while only they have recognised the seriousness of the threat of climate change.

Unlawful protests in a democracy ultimately achieve nothing. Just look how Occupy the Streets failed in its campaign to bring down capitalism.

If climate change protesters want an example of how they should be conducting their campaign, they should instead look at the Make Poverty History movement, with which I worked when I was Home Secretary.

The organisers didn't break the law. Instead, they organised peaceful demos and staged concerts around the world.

They conducted their campaign in a manner which persuaded rather than alienated — and as a result they achieved their objectives.

They persuaded world leaders to agree to debt relief for developing countries and also contributed to efforts tackling climate change.

It fills me with contempt to hear the protesters 'apologising' to the public for causing disruption. People who make no effort to engage in public debate don't deserve our support. They claim to care about the public, but frankly they don't care one bit.

Extinction Rebellion wants us to think that it is central to the fight against climate change, but it is rapidly turning itself into an utter irrelevance.

The real work tackling climate change is being done with those who engage in proper political debate, not those who engage in childish acts of sabotage.

I couldn't read beyond the first sentence of that. What a load of nonsense :fp:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:51 pm


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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Vermilion » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:41 pm

KK wrote:


They really do seem hell bent on pissing off as many people as possible. :fp:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by BID0 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:45 pm


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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by BID0 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:46 pm

Vermilion wrote:
KK wrote:


They really do seem hell bent on pissing off as many people as possible. :fp:

strawberry float those people :datass:

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:48 pm

BID0 wrote:
Vermilion wrote:
KK wrote:


They really do seem hell bent on pissing off as many people as possible. :fp:

strawberry float those people :datass:

The cheek of people hoping to go with their friends/families abroad for the double bank holiday. They've got it coming!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by BID0 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:01 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Vermilion wrote:
KK wrote:


They really do seem hell bent on pissing off as many people as possible. :fp:

strawberry float those people :datass:

The cheek of people hoping to go with their friends/families abroad for the double bank holiday. They've got it coming!

I’m sure those kind of people would understand. At least those with families/children. Possibly not those with friends

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Meep » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:11 pm

I'm guessing most of the work done in London has almost no useful social value, which is probably only marginally worse than most of the western world. If we are brutally honest with ourselves then at least half the jobs in modern capitalism are basically pointless. People lie to themselves and others but we all know it. Disrupting people getting to their work in the city has very little meaningful cost, certainly not to those people who will still get paid, while failing to tackle climate change has tremendous costs.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Tafdolphin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:17 pm

Direct action works. Who the strawberry float cares if some people have to get full refunds on their holidays and go some other time?

Also, what Meep said.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by TV Dinner » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:53 pm

Meep wrote:I'm guessing most of the work done in London has almost no useful social value, which is probably only marginally worse than most of the western world. If we are brutally honest with ourselves then at least half the jobs in modern capitalism are basically pointless. People lie to themselves and others but we all know it. Disrupting people getting to their work in the city has very little meaningful cost, certainly not to those people who will still get paid, while failing to tackle climate change has tremendous costs.

Is stopping people from using public transport an effective way of tackling climate change?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Tafdolphin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:02 pm

TV Dinner wrote:
Meep wrote:I'm guessing most of the work done in London has almost no useful social value, which is probably only marginally worse than most of the western world. If we are brutally honest with ourselves then at least half the jobs in modern capitalism are basically pointless. People lie to themselves and others but we all know it. Disrupting people getting to their work in the city has very little meaningful cost, certainly not to those people who will still get paid, while failing to tackle climate change has tremendous costs.

Is stopping people from using public transport an effective way of tackling climate change?


Is walking around London an effective way of getting a 2nd referendum?

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