Politics Thread 5

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Thu May 23, 2019 12:54 pm

Blue Eyes wrote:EU nationals are being turned away from polling stations and told to go vote in their own country. They were previously registered to vote but not now. What the absolute strawberry float is going on?


Either:

A) Incompetence mixed with a last minute rush to get ready for an unexpected election

Or

B) A conspiracy to deny Remain any votes – make sure you take a PEN with you so they can’t erase your vote!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Tafdolphin » Thu May 23, 2019 4:28 pm



Hmm.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by satriales » Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm

Blue Eyes wrote:EU nationals are being turned away from polling stations and told to go vote in their own country. They were previously registered to vote but not now. What the absolute strawberry float is going on?

Theresa May was told this would happen in PMQs yesterday and she gave her usual disgusting non-answer:

The SNP’s Joanna Cherry says some EU citizens will not be able to vote in the European elections because, with the elections taking place at the last moment, councils did not have the time to send out forms for people to sign saying they would not be voting elsewhere. Will May make sure those forms are available at polling stations?

May says, if MPs had voted for her deal, the elections would not be taking place

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Cuttooth » Fri May 24, 2019 8:15 am



We're so strawberry floated.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri May 24, 2019 8:21 am

Cuttooth wrote:

We're so strawberry floated.


strawberry float me. :fp:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Fri May 24, 2019 8:57 am

'Swept up on a tide': disaffected voters flock to Brexit party across north-west

As the glitterball twinkled and the raffle table heaved with prizes in a Lancashire pub in the former mill village of Bamber Bridge, Margaret West was feeling happier than she had for months. The Blackpool rock‘n’roll dancer and former education worker had been so angry and stressed over Brexit she’d lost sleep over it, felt ignored by politicians and unfairly insulted online for voting to leave. But then something came along that made her feel represented, “that gave me a sense of excitement, something new and worthy like the Suffragette movement”, she said. It was Nigel Farage’s Brexit party.

West had never been involved in politics and had voted Labour before switching to Conservative. Now she is one of more than 100,000 Brexit party supporters who donated online, put stickers in their windows and went to Farage’s roadshow rallies. At this Brexit party pub night south of Preston, supporters were looking ahead to planning a Westminster election campaign. “It’s like being swept up on a tide,” West said. “There’s such a great atmosphere. I’ve never been to the football but when Nigel walks out at a rally, I imagine that’s the feeling you get when your team scores a goal.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... north-west

Sound familiar to you?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri May 24, 2019 9:03 am

KK wrote:
'Swept up on a tide': disaffected voters flock to Brexit party across north-west

As the glitterball twinkled and the raffle table heaved with prizes in a Lancashire pub in the former mill village of Bamber Bridge, Margaret West was feeling happier than she had for months. The Blackpool rock‘n’roll dancer and former education worker had been so angry and stressed over Brexit she’d lost sleep over it, felt ignored by politicians and unfairly insulted online for voting to leave. But then something came along that made her feel represented, “that gave me a sense of excitement, something new and worthy like the Suffragette movement”, she said. It was Nigel Farage’s Brexit party.

West had never been involved in politics and had voted Labour before switching to Conservative. Now she is one of more than 100,000 Brexit party supporters who donated online, put stickers in their windows and went to Farage’s roadshow rallies. At this Brexit party pub night south of Preston, supporters were looking ahead to planning a Westminster election campaign. “It’s like being swept up on a tide,” West said. “There’s such a great atmosphere. I’ve never been to the football but when Nigel walks out at a rally, I imagine that’s the feeling you get when your team scores a goal.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... north-west

Sound familiar to you?


They will deserve everything that happens to them if their hero gets his way.

I can forgive and forget 2016. They can all strawberry float off if they still think it’s a good idea.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Hexx » Fri May 24, 2019 9:06 am

KK wrote:
'Swept up on a tide': disaffected voters flock to Brexit party across north-west

As the glitterball twinkled and the raffle table heaved with prizes in a Lancashire pub in the former mill village of Bamber Bridge, Margaret West was feeling happier than she had for months. The Blackpool rock‘n’roll dancer and former education worker had been so angry and stressed over Brexit she’d lost sleep over it, felt ignored by politicians and unfairly insulted online for voting to leave. But then something came along that made her feel represented, “that gave me a sense of excitement, something new and worthy like the Suffragette movement”, she said. It was Nigel Farage’s Brexit party.

West had never been involved in politics and had voted Labour before switching to Conservative. Now she is one of more than 100,000 Brexit party supporters who donated online, put stickers in their windows and went to Farage’s roadshow rallies. At this Brexit party pub night south of Preston, supporters were looking ahead to planning a Westminster election campaign. “It’s like being swept up on a tide,” West said. “There’s such a great atmosphere. I’ve never been to the football but when Nigel walks out at a rally, I imagine that’s the feeling you get when your team scores a goal.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... north-west

Sound familiar to you?


We've all encountered the profoundly stupid before

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri May 24, 2019 9:31 am

[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/harveyschmacker/status/1131620668657868804[/tweet]

:lol:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Jenuall » Fri May 24, 2019 9:38 am

Still chomping away on his racist sandwich.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri May 24, 2019 10:08 am

Moggy wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:

We're so strawberry floated.


strawberry float me. :fp:

They haven't even got any policies, Jesus Christ :fp:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Drumstick » Fri May 24, 2019 10:41 am

The Great British Public (tm).

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Jenuall » Fri May 24, 2019 10:45 am

Have so many people ever coalesced around so many wrong parties before? Surely we should be seeing some swing away from these nutcases?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Fri May 24, 2019 11:02 am

Jenuall wrote:Have so many people ever coalesced around so many wrong parties before? Surely we should be seeing some swing away from these nutcases?

It beggars belief. I was convinced a second referendum would deliver a victory for remain, now I believe the reverse. So, what the Hell do we do? I think we've got to the point now that large swathes of the population are clamouring for a no deal. Many won't like this, but I think we need to get behind Labour, aren't they the only party with a chance of beating these nut Jobs?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri May 24, 2019 11:31 am

Samuel_1 wrote:
Jenuall wrote:Have so many people ever coalesced around so many wrong parties before? Surely we should be seeing some swing away from these nutcases?

It beggars belief. I was convinced a second referendum would deliver a victory for remain, now I believe the reverse. So, what the Hell do we do? I think we've got to the point now that large swathes of the population are clamouring for a no deal. Many won't like this, but I think we need to get behind Labour, aren't they the only party with a chance of beating these nut Jobs?


I still think a second referendum would deliver a Remain vote.

The Brexit Party are doing well but they have nowhere near 50% of the vote or public opinion. They will crow about their victory at the European elections but break down the figures and they are not overwhelming, especially when you consider how the Remain vote is fractured amongst several parties.

The key will be what way the Tory and Labour voters would vote in a referendum. Leavers will be claiming both of those as a victory for themselves, but I don’t think that is necessarily the case.

And we will all get behind Labour as soon as Labour come up with a position that we like. Corbyn needs to get the strawberry float off of the fence and clearly spell out whether they back a Leave v Remain referendum.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Corazon de Leon » Fri May 24, 2019 11:46 am

The PR victories that the right keep scoring and the own goals that the left are shooting in left, right and centre are absolutely astounding.

Take that image up there of an old man covered in milkshake. Who looks like they’re in the wrong? The person who has assaulted the old racist or the sweet old man who’s been attacked just for supporting a political party?

The left, or remain, or whatever you want to call them, need to unite, create a coherent, cohesive and well organised communications strategy both online and in the community, and really push for a second referendum over the course of the Tory leadership contest. Otherwise they’re truly strawberry floated.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Fri May 24, 2019 11:51 am

Corazon de Leon wrote:Take that image up there of an old man covered in milkshake. Who looks like they’re in the wrong? The person who has assaulted the old racist or the sweet old man who’s been attacked just for supporting a political party?


And the funny thing is that sweet old man is almost certainly lying.

The right shot dead an MP and it is ignored. A racist old prick spills yogurt on himself, makes up some lies about it and suddenly the left are the violent ones.

strawberry floating crazy. :lol:

It sounds like I am arguing with you Cora, I’m not I actually agree with you. We are truly strawberry floated while politics continues along this path.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Drumstick » Fri May 24, 2019 11:53 am

Corazon de Leon wrote:The left, or remain, or whatever you want to call them, need to unite, create a coherent, cohesive and well organised communications strategy both online and in the community, and really push for a second referendum over the course of the Tory leadership contest. Otherwise they’re truly strawberry floated.

Lib Dems and Greens suggested a similar approach to combating the right and Corbyn wasn't interested. Difficult to do something like that when the leader of the largest left-wing party publicly rebuffs the idea without even a discussion on it.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Karl_ » Fri May 24, 2019 11:55 am

Corazon de Leon wrote:The PR victories that the right keep scoring and the own goals that the left are shooting in left, right and centre are absolutely astounding.

Take that image up there of an old man covered in milkshake. Who looks like they’re in the wrong? The person who has assaulted the old racist or the sweet old man who’s been attacked just for supporting a political party?

The left, or remain, or whatever you want to call them, need to unite, create a coherent, cohesive and well organised communications strategy both online and in the community, and really push for a second referendum over the course of the Tory leadership contest. Otherwise they’re truly strawberry floated.

"Parliamentary cretins, who consider themselves connoisseurs of the people, like to repeat:

'One must not frighten the middle classes with revolution. They do not like extremes.'

In this general form, this affirmation is absolutely false. Naturally, the petty proprietor prefers order so long as business is going well and so long as he hopes that tomorrow it will go better.

But when this hope is lost, he is easily enraged and is ready to give himself over to the most extreme measures. Otherwise, how could he have overthrown the democratic state and brought fascism to power in Italy and Germany? The despairing petty bourgeois sees in fascism, above all, a fighting force against big capital, and believes that, unlike the working-class parties which deal only in words, fascism will use force to establish more 'justice'. The peasant and the artisan are in their manner realists. They understand that one cannot forego the use of force.

It is false, thrice false, to affirm that the present petty bourgeoisie is not going to the working-class parties because it fears 'extreme measures'. Quite the contrary. The lower petty bourgeoisie, its great masses, only see in the working-class parties parliamentary machines. They do not believe in their strength, nor in their capacity to struggle, nor in their readiness this time to conduct the struggle to the end.

And if this is so, is it worth the trouble to replace the democratic capitalist representatives by their parliamentary confreres on the left? That is how the semi-exploited, ruined, and discontented proprietor reasons of feels. Without an understanding of this psychology of the peasants, the artisans, the employees, the petty functionaries, etc. -- a psychology which flows from the social crisis -- it is impossible to elaborate a correct policy. The petty bourgeoisie is economically dependent and politically atomized. That is why it cannot conduct an independent policy. It needs a 'leader' who inspires it with confidence. This individual or collective leadership, i.e., a personage or party, can be given to it by one or the other of the fundamental classes -- either the big bourgeoisie or the proletariat. Fascism unties and arms the scattered masses. Out of human dust, it organizes combat detachments. It thus gives the petty bourgeoisie the illusion of being an independent force. It begins to imagine that it will really command the state. It is not surprising that these illusions and hopes turn the head of the petty bourgeoisie!

But the petty bourgeoisie can also find a leader in the proletariat. This was demonstrated in Russia and partially in Spain. In Italy, in Germany, and in Austria, the petty bourgeoisie gravitated in this direction. But the parties of the proletariat did not rise to their historic task.

To bring the petty bourgeoisie to its side, the proletariat must win its confidence. And for that it must have confidence in its own strength.

It must have a clear program of action and must be ready to struggle for power by all possible means. Tempered by it revolutionary party for a decisive and pitiless struggle, the proletariat says to the peasants and petty bourgeoisie of the cities:

'We are struggling for power. Here is our program. We are ready to discuss with you changes in this program. We will employ violence only against big capital and its lackeys, but with you toilers, we desire to conclude an alliance on the basis of a given program.'

The peasants will understand such language. Only, they must have faith in the capacity of the proletariat to seize power.

But for that it is necessary to purge the united front of all equivocation, of all indecision, of all hollow phrases. It is necessary to understand the situation and to place oneself seriously on the revolutionary road."

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Parksey » Fri May 24, 2019 12:05 pm

Corazon de Leon wrote:The PR victories that the right keep scoring and the own goals that the left are shooting in left, right and centre are absolutely astounding.

Take that image up there of an old man covered in milkshake. Who looks like they’re in the wrong? The person who has assaulted the old racist or the sweet old man who’s been attacked just for supporting a political party?

The left, or remain, or whatever you want to call them, need to unite, create a coherent, cohesive and well organised communications strategy both online and in the community, and really push for a second referendum over the course of the Tory leadership contest. Otherwise they’re truly strawberry floated.


While I think the Left can't be held responsible for the people the Right creates, I can get behind a lot of this thinking.

Look, we like to look at the voting intention and think "Christ, how can people be so stupid", or accuse them of being hopelessly misguided at best, or cowardly rascists at worst.

The problem is, that approach is just going to push them further away. Those people, whether we believe what they think and feel is "wrong" or not, have legitimate feelings. We might believe those feelings to be misguided, uneducated, stupid etc. but that doesn't stop them feeling that way. To those voters, they are real feelings and fears.

Calling them stupid isn't going to pull them back towards the centre. Throwing milkshakes at them isn't going to make them realise. Humiliating them isn't going to do anything either.

If there's one side calling you stupid, thick rascists and the side you're leaning to *seems* to understand you, speak for you and represent you, then you aren't going to listen to the side lambasting you. Deep down, no human being wants to be told they are wrong and peope naturally flock to those they agree with.

The problem with the likes of Farage is they are quite cleverly, speaking to a group of disenfranchised people who feel like they have no-one speaking for them. Again, whether that is accurate or not doesn't change that people are feeling that way. Trying to discredit Farage and his supporters just double down to protect someone they see as representing them. That's not going to change through milkshake.

It feels sometimes that the Left think the moral high ground will naturally get people flowing back. Bit they focus so much on the media circus around people like Farage, they do somewhat lack a focus on the voters behind him.


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