Politics Thread 5

[Lagamorph]

Labour know they can't renegotiate a new deal the EU have pointed out the deal is the deal and it won't be re-opened no matter who is in charge.
Even if that weren't true and they were able to negotiate a new deal, Labour policy is also to renegotiate freedom of movement despite knowing that can't be done either. Without Freedom of Movement then May's deal is the very best they will offer. With freedom of movement you might as well not leave at all.

They're literally promising things they already know are lies and cannot happen.

[Hexx]

If super cool dude starts on about how the EU loved Corbyn's Brexit plan I might get BINGO!

[Dual]

And to think Cal said if he wasn't posting the whole thread would be a giant circle jerk.

Those were the days.

[Moggy]

It’s not so much Labour I am unconvinced by, just Corbyn. I think that Labour as a whole is pretty pro-Remain and they have decent policies.

But Corbyn is just not for me. He’s unimpressive as a leader, he is uncommitted when it comes to the Brexit issue and his handling of issues (anti-semitism for instance) has been poor.

I don’t think he is a full on communist, I don’t think he is personally anti-semitic and I don’t think he is a bad person. He’s just out of his depth. I could overlook his poor leadership if it meant getting rid of the Tories, but I cannot overlook the Brexit issue and the problems that that is going to cause the entire country.

The next election for me will be all about Brexit and my vote will go to a party that I feel has been clear on the issue. The Greens and Lib Dems have been openly pro-Europe for a long time, Labour (under Corbyn) haven’t. And so Labour will lose my vote.

[Moggy]

And to think Cal said if he wasn't posting the whole thread would be a giant circle jerk.

Those were the days.

Are you thinking of the mass wank thread?

[Hexx]

They're literally promising things they already know are lies and cannot happen.

It's not new.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... els-invest

strawberry floating waste of space

[Hexx]

On a unrelated note.

Can someone explain this Tanker thing to me?

Is it really as dumb as it looks?

We take an Iranian Tanker (due to US request?)
Iran takes an UK tanker.
Ask the US for help? Nope lol!
Quick the EU for help!

[Moggy]

On a unrelated note.

Can someone explain this Tanker thing to me?

Is it really as dumb as it looks?

We take an Iranian Tanker (due to US request?)
Iran takes an UK tanker.
Ask the US for help? Nope lol!
Quick the EU for help!

I’ve not looked into it too much, but my impression was that we took an Iranian tanker as it was near Gibraltar and was contravening EU sanctions, not US ones.

Iran then took one of our ships and we are powerless to do anything as we’ve slashed the navy over the last few decades.

I think we then asked for EU help and France has agreed to an EU naval force? Which is hilarious as I think we were all supposed to be terrified of an EU army, but apparently an EU navy is fine.

[Samuel_1]

It’s not so much Labour I am unconvinced by, just Corbyn. I think that Labour as a whole is pretty pro-Remain and they have decent policies.

But Corbyn is just not for me. He’s unimpressive as a leader, he is uncommitted when it comes to the Brexit issue and his handling of issues (anti-semitism for instance) has been poor.

I don’t think he is a full on communist, I don’t think he is personally anti-semitic and I don’t think he is a bad person. He’s just out of his depth. I could overlook his poor leadership if it meant getting rid of the Tories, but I cannot overlook the Brexit issue and the problems that that is going to cause the entire country.

The next election for me will be all about Brexit and my vote will go to a party that I feel has been clear on the issue. The Greens and Lib Dems have been openly pro-Europe for a long time, Labour (under Corbyn) haven’t. And so Labour will lose my vote.

You say that the media bias against Corbyn doesn't have that much of an effect, but it seems to have worked in your case and many others on here.

This in an old story, but I would argue things have got worse since its publication.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-attacks-75-per-cent-three-quarters-fail-to-accurately-report-a7140681.html

[Moggy]

It’s not so much Labour I am unconvinced by, just Corbyn. I think that Labour as a whole is pretty pro-Remain and they have decent policies.

But Corbyn is just not for me. He’s unimpressive as a leader, he is uncommitted when it comes to the Brexit issue and his handling of issues (anti-semitism for instance) has been poor.

I don’t think he is a full on communist, I don’t think he is personally anti-semitic and I don’t think he is a bad person. He’s just out of his depth. I could overlook his poor leadership if it meant getting rid of the Tories, but I cannot overlook the Brexit issue and the problems that that is going to cause the entire country.

The next election for me will be all about Brexit and my vote will go to a party that I feel has been clear on the issue. The Greens and Lib Dems have been openly pro-Europe for a long time, Labour (under Corbyn) haven’t. And so Labour will lose my vote.

You say that the media bias against Corbyn doesn't have that much of an effect, but it seems to have worked in your case and many others on here.

This in an old story, but I would argue things have got worse since its publication.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-attacks-75-per-cent-three-quarters-fail-to-accurately-report-a7140681.html

Yes Samuel, it was the media that turned me against Corbyn, it couldn’t possibly be that I have my own opinions and have decided something for myself based on what the man himself has said and done (or in his case not done).

Incidentally, I said in that post that I don’t think he is a communist, an anti-semite or a bad person. Have I gotten that wrong?

[Tineash]

"I form my opinions on my own and media has no influence on me" is so naive.

[Moggy]

"I form my opinions on my own and media has no influence on me" is so naive.

Whereas:

A vote for the Lib Dems is perfect for those who would like the boot thoroughly licked before it stamps on their face, forever.

Is a really balanced and nuanced position.

[Rex Kramer]

Which came first - Corbyn being a bit useless or the media telling me he's a bit useless?

All of this talk is pointless, he's not winning an election, end of story. Whether that's because the media have sold the narrative to the majority or not is irrelevant, he's where he is and Labour aren't winning with him in charge. That leaves two options, ditch him and maybe win or sit bemoaning the inequality of it all in opposition.

[Winckle]

Cool, we'll ditch Corbyn, the PLP close ranks and will make sure no one from the left of the party gets to be on the ballot (as they tried with the last leadership election) and then we'll be back to a nice neoliberal consensus.

[Hexx]

Which came first - Corbyn being a bit useless or the media telling me he's a bit useless?

All of this talk is pointless, he's not winning an election, end of story. Whether that's because the media have sold the narrative to the majority or not is irrelevant, he's where he is and Labour aren't winning with him in charge. That leaves two options, ditch him and maybe win or sit bemoaning the inequality of it all in opposition.

I've never really believed the "media has it so bad for Corbyn" narrative. Every politician is mocked/ridiculed by hostile press elements.

Just off the top of my head
e.g. Milliband was mocked for how he ate a sandwich, a terrible Stone and attacked for his dad.
Cameron got the, unverified, unsupported and supplied by one of his enemies, PigFucker story
May's dancing. Or May's trousers. etc
Edit - Or everything about strawberry floating Boris in the last few months.


I think we all agree that the Corbyn cult will go with option 2

[Samuel_1]

It’s not so much Labour I am unconvinced by, just Corbyn. I think that Labour as a whole is pretty pro-Remain and they have decent policies.

But Corbyn is just not for me. He’s unimpressive as a leader, he is uncommitted when it comes to the Brexit issue and his handling of issues (anti-semitism for instance) has been poor.

I don’t think he is a full on communist, I don’t think he is personally anti-semitic and I don’t think he is a bad person. He’s just out of his depth. I could overlook his poor leadership if it meant getting rid of the Tories, but I cannot overlook the Brexit issue and the problems that that is going to cause the entire country.

The next election for me will be all about Brexit and my vote will go to a party that I feel has been clear on the issue. The Greens and Lib Dems have been openly pro-Europe for a long time, Labour (under Corbyn) haven’t. And so Labour will lose my vote.

You say that the media bias against Corbyn doesn't have that much of an effect, but it seems to have worked in your case and many others on here.

This in an old story, but I would argue things have got worse since its publication.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-media-bias-attacks-75-per-cent-three-quarters-fail-to-accurately-report-a7140681.html

Yes Samuel, it was the media that turned me against Corbyn, it couldn’t possibly be that I have my own opinions and have decided something for myself based on what the man himself has said and done (or in his case not done).

Incidentally, I said in that post that I don’t think he is a communist, an anti-semite or a bad person. Have I gotten that wrong?

Do you think they could have been a factor in the forming of your opinion, genuine question? If this is not not the case for you, do you not think it could be the case for many others? I have issues with the handling of AS and Brexit, but I think things are slowly getting better with those. There are also so many other issues at stake that make me support Corbyn. Considering the Herculean efforts the press have made to discredit the man, do you not think that his continued leadership shows a certain strength? He has also managed to keep the membership numbers stable under such circumstances. As I have said, I would accept another leader who continues with the efforts to fulfill the manifesto pledges, what worries me is that they would attacked in much the same way and the same criticisms would be levelled at them.

[Samuel_1]

Which came first - Corbyn being a bit useless or the media telling me he's a bit useless?

All of this talk is pointless, he's not winning an election, end of story. Whether that's because the media have sold the narrative to the majority or not is irrelevant, he's where he is and Labour aren't winning with him in charge. That leaves two options, ditch him and maybe win or sit bemoaning the inequality of it all in opposition.

I've never really believed the "media has it so bad for Corbyn" narrative. Every politician is mocked/ridiculed by hostile press elements.

Just off the top of my head
e.g. Milliband was mocked for how he ate a sandwich, a terrible Stone and attacked for his dad.
Cameron got the, unverified, unsupported and supplied by one of his enemies, PigFucker story
May's dancing. Or May's trousers. etc


I think we all agree that the Corbyn cult will go with option 2

Did you read the article citing the study by the London School of Economics study? Christ man, stop using words like Corbyn cult, has anyone on here said he's perfect? He has his flaws, but I like his policies.

[Hexx]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... emy-corbyn

o Swinson, the new Lib Dem leader, has again ruled out working with Jeremy Corbyn, branding him a Brexiter who cannot be trusted to fight for a second referendum to keep the UK in the EU.

She said her door was open to MPs from other parties who wanted to work towards a second referendum.

But she said the Lib Dems could not join a pact with Labour while Corbyn was leader, even in the event of a hung parliament.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Swinson was scathing about Labour’s Brexit approach, even though the party has now said it would support a referendum on any deal put forward.

“There is nothing to suggest Jeremy Corbyn can be trusted on Brexit or that he will campaign to remain. Let’s remember in the last referendum he went on holiday for two weeks in the middle of it. Forgive me for not believing Jeremy Corbyn’s newly mouthed words on Brexit. He can barely bring himself to say the words people’s vote,” she said.

“I’m not supporting Jeremy Corbyn. If we are to have an election I would fight as Lib Dem leader as the party of remain that hasn’t equivocated on this like Jeremy Corbyn.

“There are plenty of people in the Labour party that I can work with, that I do work with. But Jeremy Corbyn is a Brexiteer. He cannot be trusted on Brexit. That is abundantly clear.

“And to boot he is somebody that is failing to deal with the scourge of antisemitism in his own party.”

Swinson said she was talking to some Conservative MPs about the possibility of defecting to her party after recruiting Chuka Umunna from Labour and Heidi Allen from the Tories via the Independent group. “Our door is absolutely open to people who share our values,” she said.

Since her election by Lib Dem members on Monday, Swinson has come under fire for her role in the coalition government as a minister voting for austerity measures and bringing in controversial policies such as employment tribunal fees.

[Hexx]

Which came first - Corbyn being a bit useless or the media telling me he's a bit useless?

All of this talk is pointless, he's not winning an election, end of story. Whether that's because the media have sold the narrative to the majority or not is irrelevant, he's where he is and Labour aren't winning with him in charge. That leaves two options, ditch him and maybe win or sit bemoaning the inequality of it all in opposition.

I've never really believed the "media has it so bad for Corbyn" narrative. Every politician is mocked/ridiculed by hostile press elements.

Just off the top of my head
e.g. Milliband was mocked for how he ate a sandwich, a terrible Stone and attacked for his dad.
Cameron got the, unverified, unsupported and supplied by one of his enemies, PigFucker story
May's dancing. Or May's trousers. etc


I think we all agree that the Corbyn cult will go with option 2

Did you read the article citing the study by the London School of Economics study? Christ man, stop using words like Corbyn cult, has anyone on here said he's perfect? He has his flaws, but I like his policies.

Course I did. Did you? Did you read and consider what I said before leaping outraged to defense of CORBYN!

It (the article I've not read the report) said Corbyn faced a hostile media. I don't deny that.

It said nothing about if he faced a more, the same, or less hostile media than other politicians - if you have something to support that viewpoint I'd be curious to read it

[Tineash]

I didn't read the study but I'm serenely confident it says the thing I already believed