Politics Thread 5

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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Karl_ » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:25 pm

Moggy wrote:[tweet]https://mobile.twitter.com/suzanne_moore/status/1137371560325591047[/tweet]

Leadsom now. :fp:

All them support draconian drug laws while using their previous drug taking as a way to make themselves seem more normal.

I suppose they are hoping younger / more liberal people will hear "I went to parties, I was a normal person", while crusty judgmental old weirdos will hear "I regret it, I'm against drugs".

I feel like these things aren't as consequential as politicians imagine them to be as I would hope the average person wouldn't give a gooseberry fool either way, but to the extent that anyone notices, I hope it backfires.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by mcjihge2 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:37 pm

No, They are getting ahead of the news to try to own it. Gove Coke, Leadsom Hash - Someones got dirt on them and they knew it. They are dead in the water now.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:06 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by KK » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:08 pm

mcjihge2 wrote:No, They are getting ahead of the news to try to own it. Gove Coke, Leadsom Hash - Someones got dirt on them and they knew it. They are dead in the water now.

Yeah, this is all that’s been happening today.

There are basically two choices:

A newspaper exposes you. This looks bad and you can’t attempt to control the narrative. You’re screwed.

You come clean and cut a deal with the newspaper for the exclusive, and in exchange you get to limit the damage to your reputation. The Daily Mail today was nothing more than a Gove love-in. You’re still screwed.

Cowardly Boris Johnson however looks like he’s going to attempt to duck these upcoming TV debates, therefore he can’t be properly challenged or answer any potential awkward questions from his party, the audience, or interviewers. He seems to think he can just waltz on into the PM position with no scrutiny.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lagamorph » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:09 pm

KK wrote:Cowardly Boris Johnson however looks like he’s going to attempt to duck these upcoming TV debates, therefore he can’t be properly challenged or answer any potential awkward questions from his party, the audience, or interviewers. He seems to think he can just waltz on into the PM position with no scrutiny.

He's probably right.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:11 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?


The title was enough to put me off.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:24 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?


The suggestion that the Lib Dems or a return to New labour would put the NHS at risk. Blair actually put a huge amount of money into the NHS.

The idea that Corybn has been clear on anything really. I don't think he has stood up firmly against the facists. He has said on a few occasions that foreign workers have been reducing UK workers wages. So he's basically trying to pander to them not that Blair has been any better.

I don't really agree that the EU has to be a neo liberal organisation. It's controlled by the member states and can change.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:24 pm

You don't think they were complicit in many of the Tory's activities?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:26 pm

Blair's government over saw privatisation in the NHS, of course it was in a better state under his government than it is now, but it doesn't change that fact.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:27 pm

Should have said in part, through PFI.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by massimo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:30 pm

Is it me or do the Lib Dem’s get more grief for austerity than the Tory’s?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Knoyleo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:56 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?


The suggestion that the Lib Dems or a return to New labour would put the NHS at risk. Blair actually put a huge amount of money into the NHS.

Put a huge amount of private money into the NHS.


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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by captain red dog » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:11 pm

The drugs issue is an interesting subject. I don't think it is as simple as legalising and regulating all of it. In terms of Gove, the talk is about cocaine and I don't really see a decent case to legalise that.

Cannabis I feel should be legalised, but the long term effects are kind of unknown. Comparisons to alcohol and tobacco are valid, both are known to be more harmful than what is currently known about cannabis, but on the other hand do we really want to bring another substance into the mainstream before the true long term effects are understood.

My feeling is that Cannabis from what we know isn't anymore harmful than alcohol or tobacco, and is already in widespread use and mostly ignored aside from the big manufacturers. So yeah, I say legalise it, but let's hold off for the time being on other drugs.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:14 pm

Knoyleo wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?


The suggestion that the Lib Dems or a return to New labour would put the NHS at risk. Blair actually put a huge amount of money into the NHS.

Put a huge amount of private money into the NHS.



I don't really agree with PFI it was a huge mistake but the PFI stuff still kept the NHS in public hands it just used private funds to build new hospitals. The debts will eventually paid back and the infrastructure will return wholly to public ownership. The privatisation that's happening under the Tories is different it's actually the privatisation the provision of health care.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Samuel_1 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?


The suggestion that the Lib Dems or a return to New labour would put the NHS at risk. Blair actually put a huge amount of money into the NHS.

Put a huge amount of private money into the NHS.



I don't really agree with PFI it was a huge mistake but the PFI stuff still kept the NHS in public hands it just used private funds to build new hospitals. The debts will eventually paid back and the infrastructure will return wholly to public ownership. The privatisation that's happening under the Tories is different it's actually the privatisation the provision of health care.

We absolutely agree that what the Tories are doing is far worse.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:01 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:This will be a pretty unpopular post, but it echos many of my thoughts on the current resurgence of the Lib Dems.



Listened to a third of it, it sounded like he didn't have the first idea about UK politics and was just spouting what he read on twitter.
What parts do you disagree with?


The suggestion that the Lib Dems or a return to New labour would put the NHS at risk. Blair actually put a huge amount of money into the NHS.

Put a huge amount of private money into the NHS.



I don't really agree with PFI it was a huge mistake but the PFI stuff still kept the NHS in public hands it just used private funds to build new hospitals. The debts will eventually paid back and the infrastructure will return wholly to public ownership. The privatisation that's happening under the Tories is different it's actually the privatisation the provision of health care.

We absolutely agree that what the Tories are doing is far worse.


Yeah, the Tories seem to be setting us up for US style insurance. You can critise what New Labour did, but they were no where near that.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:09 pm

Samuel_1 wrote:You don't think they were complicit in many of the Tory's activities?


I'm conflicted on the coalition government. I feel like they were left with few other options but I really don't really like that it happened.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Lex-Man » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:21 pm

massimo wrote:Is it me or do the Lib Dem’s get more grief for austerity than the Tory’s?


I think that's just to do with the Lib Dems appealing to different voters than the Tories. Most Tories agree with austerity.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 5
by Moggy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:26 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Samuel_1 wrote:You don't think they were complicit in many of the Tory's activities?


I'm conflicted on the coalition government. I feel like they were left with few other options but I really don't really like that it happened.


I voted Lib Dem in every single election.

Since the coalition I haven’t voted for them once. I wasn’t voting Lib Dem to get bloody Tories in charge.

But if I felt voting Lib Dem would stop Brexit, then I’d happily vote for them again. It’s been 9 years since Clegg joined the coalition, I no longer feel anger at the current Lib Dem party and would hope they’ve learned their lesson.


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