Politics Thread 6 - Full disclosure, I once voted Lib Dem

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Who will you vote for at the next General Election?

Conservative
9
12%
Labour
23
29%
Liberal Democrat
21
27%
Green
18
23%
SNP
5
6%
Brexit Party
0
No votes
UKIP
0
No votes
Plaid Cymru
0
No votes
DUP
0
No votes
Sinn Fein
2
3%
The Independent Group for Change
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 78
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BID0
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by BID0 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:29 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I've never understood why a Tory and Lib Dem pact always seems more possible than a Labour one. For as long a so can remember, generally Lib Dem and Labour have been pretty much aligned on policy. The only big disagreement I remember was over the Iraq war.

But when you compare Lib Dem policy to Tory policy, there are very little similarities.


Has anybody said a Tory/LD pact is more possible?

I’d say that was utterly impossible at the moment with their Brexit stances.

Left wingers see the LDs as centre-right, right wingers see them as centre-left. They are either Tory stooges or loony lefties. :lol:

Sorry Moggy, didn't see this until this morning. I meant outside of the Brexit debate, it always seems more likely the LDs would go in with the Tories rather than Labour. It always baffles me. When you look at the coalition in 2010, LD support was destroyed because they followed Tory policy which was so completely at odds with their own values, and indeed manifesto.

Take the tuition fee debacle. They'd probably have got that policy through, or something very close to it, if they went into power with Labour in 2010. Instead they found themselves wedded to austerity and doing the exact opposite.

It's because people were weary of Labour at that point and we just had the financial crash. Labour were also not the Labour existing today.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Moggy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:43 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I've never understood why a Tory and Lib Dem pact always seems more possible than a Labour one. For as long a so can remember, generally Lib Dem and Labour have been pretty much aligned on policy. The only big disagreement I remember was over the Iraq war.

But when you compare Lib Dem policy to Tory policy, there are very little similarities.


Has anybody said a Tory/LD pact is more possible?

I’d say that was utterly impossible at the moment with their Brexit stances.

Left wingers see the LDs as centre-right, right wingers see them as centre-left. They are either Tory stooges or loony lefties. :lol:

Sorry Moggy, didn't see this until this morning. I meant outside of the Brexit debate, it always seems more likely the LDs would go in with the Tories rather than Labour. It always baffles me. When you look at the coalition in 2010, LD support was destroyed because they followed Tory policy which was so completely at odds with their own values, and indeed manifesto.

Take the tuition fee debacle. They'd probably have got that policy through, or something very close to it, if they went into power with Labour in 2010. Instead they found themselves wedded to austerity and doing the exact opposite.


I think the Lib Dem support was closer to Labour in 2010 but Clegg saw the chance of an electoral reform referendum and a chance of being in government and betrayed his voters.

After a period in the wilderness they have regained some support thanks to their anti-Brexit stance. Which again means their support is anti-Tory. Hopefully they’ve realised getting into bed with Tories is a bad idea if the chance of another coalition comes along.

I think Swinson and Johnson are so opposed on Brexit that they wouldn’t be able to betray voters again. But a sniff of power and a Brexit referendum? Who knows, I wouldn’t put it past her.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Lex-Man » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I've never understood why a Tory and Lib Dem pact always seems more possible than a Labour one. For as long a so can remember, generally Lib Dem and Labour have been pretty much aligned on policy. The only big disagreement I remember was over the Iraq war.

But when you compare Lib Dem policy to Tory policy, there are very little similarities.


Has anybody said a Tory/LD pact is more possible?

I’d say that was utterly impossible at the moment with their Brexit stances.

Left wingers see the LDs as centre-right, right wingers see them as centre-left. They are either Tory stooges or loony lefties. :lol:

Sorry Moggy, didn't see this until this morning. I meant outside of the Brexit debate, it always seems more likely the LDs would go in with the Tories rather than Labour. It always baffles me. When you look at the coalition in 2010, LD support was destroyed because they followed Tory policy which was so completely at odds with their own values, and indeed manifesto.

Take the tuition fee debacle. They'd probably have got that policy through, or something very close to it, if they went into power with Labour in 2010. Instead they found themselves wedded to austerity and doing the exact opposite.


I think the Lib Dem support was closer to Labour in 2010 but Clegg saw the chance of an electoral reform referendum and a chance of being in government and betrayed his voters.

After a period in the wilderness they have regained some support thanks to their anti-Brexit stance. Which again means their support is anti-Tory. Hopefully they’ve realised getting into bed with Tories is a bad idea if the chance of another coalition comes along.

I think Swinson and Johnson are so opposed on Brexit that they wouldn’t be able to betray voters again. But a sniff of power and a Brexit referendum? Who knows, I wouldn’t put it past her.


Also a LAB/LD coalition would have had a very small working majority and would have given a lot of ammo to the Tory party as they were the single biggest at the time.

I actually think that it was more the student loan increase than the coalition that killed the LD. They should have just tried to leave the fee stuff alone.

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Garth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Garth » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:31 pm


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Garth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Garth » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:31 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:

Excellent!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Moggy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:32 pm

51:49?

That's way too close to call. If it was 52:48 then reunification would have an overwhelming majority.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Cuttooth » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:49 pm

The 5% of unionists who would vote for a united Ireland is quite something.

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Garth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Garth » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:55 pm

Technically I'm from a Unionist background but I'd rather be in Ireland in the EU vs being in the UK outside of the EU.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Moggy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:12 pm

Cuttooth wrote:The 5% of unionists who would vote for a united Ireland is quite something.


The 2% of Nationalists that would stay in the UK are even more interesting. It's like when you see a poll of Brexit Party members donators and 1% would rather we Remain. :lol:

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Lex-Man » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:24 pm

Garth wrote:


Aren't they meant to have a referendum on reunification if polls show that the Republicans would win?

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Cuttooth » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:10 pm

Garth wrote:Technically I'm from a Unionist background but I'd rather be in Ireland in the EU vs being in the UK outside of the EU.

Oh yeah absolutely, I didn't mean that in the 'UKIP supporters voting Remain' sense of disbelief - more that it's simply striking how there are self described Unionists who would take the opportunity to leave the Union, and how that is something that can't continue to be ignored.

Am I right in saying a referendum on a unified Ireland would have to be held in both the North and Republic?

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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Karl_ » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:23 pm

That is correct, though all indications are that it would be a landslide in the south.

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Winckle
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Winckle » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:36 pm

Karl_ wrote:That is correct, though all indications are that it would be a landslide in the south.

Forgive my ignorance, but a landslide in which direction?

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Karl_ » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 pm

Winckle wrote:
Karl_ wrote:That is correct, though all indications are that it would be a landslide in the south.

Forgive my ignorance, but a landslide in which direction?

Here's a recent poll from the ROI:
Image
65% for, 19% against. There is quite strong support for reunification south of the border.

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Garth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Garth » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:06 am

Basically just waiting for the old people to die.

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Rax
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Rax » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:07 am

Theres always strong support for reunification in the south, its very difficult for people to say no to a united Ireland and the island becoming whole again. Even though I would have strong reservations about the return of violence and terrorism and whether NI would be a drain the the economy and resources of the Republic, reunification still just feels like the right thing to do.

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:12 am

I’m surprised it’s as low as that to be honest.

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satriales
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by satriales » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:44 am

Imagine if Corbyn had lied to the Queen, it's be all over The Sun and Daily Mail for days. Boris does it and not a word.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by captain red dog » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:48 am

satriales wrote:Imagine if Corbyn had lied to the Queen, it's be all over The Sun and Daily Mail for days. Boris does it and not a word.

It really helps him that Parliament is prorogued as it prevents further questions from MPs. The whole process around this prorogation really needs proper scrutiny from MPs.

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Dannie Lennox
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6 - We don’t need no education
by Dannie Lennox » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:54 am

captain red dog wrote:
satriales wrote:Imagine if Corbyn had lied to the Queen, it's be all over The Sun and Daily Mail for days. Boris does it and not a word.

It really helps him that Parliament is prorogued as it prevents further questions from MPs. The whole process around this prorogation really needs proper scrutiny from MPs.

Prorogation has nothing to do with the fact that the papers have essentially buried the story.
The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express and Daily Telegraph are actual Conservative party propaganda at this point.


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