Politics Thread 6

[Hexx]

Violence is out of control in this country.

I know right? Just today I heard someone proudly boast about a story about a group of power-drunk thugs who beat 3 underage girls so badly at least one of them needed hospital treatment.

This country man

[Return_of_the_STAR]

Violence is out of control in this country.

I know right? Just today I heard someone proudly boast about a story about a group of power-drunk thugs who beat 3 underage girls so badly at least one of them needed hospital treatment.

This country man

You are truly a disgusting human. I was not proudly boasting, it was an example.

[Moggy]

.

What are your thoughts on this story?

twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1276586194969780227

Disgraceful, disgusting. Completely immoral.

Would it happen to murdered white girls?

I hope it never happens again but I feel it’s just as likely to happen to anyone. I’ve seen no evidence that this involved race. I wouldn’t be surprised if this has happened with dead bodies before (of any race) but it’s never been reported to the police. In fact I would be 99% confident that there are selfies of other officers with dead bodies. More and more (particularly younger officers) lack the situational awareness and regularly take photos of themselves at incidents and share them with friends, family and colleagues. They would then sleep walk into taking them at serious incidents like this.

It's interesting that you think this could be relatively common but you deny any racism in the police.

If officers are so unaware of decent behaviour when it comes to murdered girls, why are you so confident that there's no/little racial prejudices amongst the police?

Of course there are people with racial prejudices in the police. There are all over the world, from every race towards another. That’s not going to go away in our life times. I have not denied any racism in the police. I’ve said previously I’ve not witnessed racist behaviour. That’s a very different thing.

I think it’s very common for younger officers to take selfies of themselves at incidents and crime scenes, it’s a worrying trend. They are glued to their phones. But again where is the evidence this happened just because the girls are black? I’m not saying it didn’t but I’ve seen nothing to suggest so. Maybe it will come out that the pictured were shared with racist intent or comment. But we haven’t heard that yet. All we know is they shared selfies of themselves with the bodies in the background.

The mother feels the police fobbed her off when she first reported her daughters missing. She's convinced it was because they are a black family on a council estate.

The police then took selfies with the dead bodies and shared those photos with friends. We've never heard of that with murdered white people. And it's very reminiscent of the old US lynching photos, where the public and the police would proudly pose with the swinging corpses. Again, the mother is absolutely convinced there was racism at play.

Then we have (this isn't the police's fault) the utter lack of news coverage over these murders. Two sisters murdered and it barely registered on the national news? I accept not every murder gets covered, but it'd be strawberry floating everywhere if two white sisters were murdered. This only seemed to become a national story because of the selfies and even then it's not a huge story.

Institutional racism is still rife in this country. It's not the old days of screaming the N word and marching to "send 'em home!" (although we may well get back to that) but it's there. It's hidden, it uses dog whistles, but it's there. And more so in organisations like the police who have such a sense of superiority and untouchability.

I guess I should say "not all police". Just way way way too strawberry floating many of them.

You would be surprised how many murders don’t make the news.

Two young white boys were found dead in a Northamptonshire town a month ago. A male has been arrested. Hasn’t even made the local news. Violence is out of control in this country.

Violence is so out of control in Northamptonshire towns that the local news doesn't have time to report it? Or is there another reason those murders have not been reported?

[Return_of_the_STAR]

.

What are your thoughts on this story?

twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1276586194969780227

Disgraceful, disgusting. Completely immoral.

Would it happen to murdered white girls?

I hope it never happens again but I feel it’s just as likely to happen to anyone. I’ve seen no evidence that this involved race. I wouldn’t be surprised if this has happened with dead bodies before (of any race) but it’s never been reported to the police. In fact I would be 99% confident that there are selfies of other officers with dead bodies. More and more (particularly younger officers) lack the situational awareness and regularly take photos of themselves at incidents and share them with friends, family and colleagues. They would then sleep walk into taking them at serious incidents like this.

It's interesting that you think this could be relatively common but you deny any racism in the police.

If officers are so unaware of decent behaviour when it comes to murdered girls, why are you so confident that there's no/little racial prejudices amongst the police?

Of course there are people with racial prejudices in the police. There are all over the world, from every race towards another. That’s not going to go away in our life times. I have not denied any racism in the police. I’ve said previously I’ve not witnessed racist behaviour. That’s a very different thing.

I think it’s very common for younger officers to take selfies of themselves at incidents and crime scenes, it’s a worrying trend. They are glued to their phones. But again where is the evidence this happened just because the girls are black? I’m not saying it didn’t but I’ve seen nothing to suggest so. Maybe it will come out that the pictured were shared with racist intent or comment. But we haven’t heard that yet. All we know is they shared selfies of themselves with the bodies in the background.

The mother feels the police fobbed her off when she first reported her daughters missing. She's convinced it was because they are a black family on a council estate.

The police then took selfies with the dead bodies and shared those photos with friends. We've never heard of that with murdered white people. And it's very reminiscent of the old US lynching photos, where the public and the police would proudly pose with the swinging corpses. Again, the mother is absolutely convinced there was racism at play.

Then we have (this isn't the police's fault) the utter lack of news coverage over these murders. Two sisters murdered and it barely registered on the national news? I accept not every murder gets covered, but it'd be strawberry floating everywhere if two white sisters were murdered. This only seemed to become a national story because of the selfies and even then it's not a huge story.

Institutional racism is still rife in this country. It's not the old days of screaming the N word and marching to "send 'em home!" (although we may well get back to that) but it's there. It's hidden, it uses dog whistles, but it's there. And more so in organisations like the police who have such a sense of superiority and untouchability.

I guess I should say "not all police". Just way way way too strawberry floating many of them.

You would be surprised how many murders don’t make the news.

Two young white boys were found dead in a Northamptonshire town a month ago. A male has been arrested. Hasn’t even made the local news. Violence is out of control in this country.

Violence is so out of control in Northamptonshire towns that the local news doesn't have time to report it? Or is there another reason those murders have not been reported?

I honestly don’t know but in my opinion violence is out of control all over the country. There are incidents that involved knifes everyday in Northampton. Ten years ago an incident involving a knife was local news and a big deal in the force. We would all be told about it in briefing. Now it’s just daily business.

[Hexx]

Violence is out of control in this country.

I know right? Just today I heard someone proudly boast about a story about a group of power-drunk thugs who beat 3 underage girls so badly at least one of them needed hospital treatment.

This country man

You are truly a disgusting human. I was not proudly boasting, it was an example.

Ok sorry. I'll take that part back. Nice we agree on the rest of it though

[Mafro]

Hexx Can you please not go from immediately from 1 to 100 when arguing with someone please.

[Hexx]

Hexx Can you please not go from immediately from 1 to 100 when arguing with someone please.

To be fair. I'm not arguing with him. I'm repeatedly (loudly) laughing and highlighting his conduct, opinions and responses when arguing there isn't significant cultural problems in the police or other elements of the country.

He just got arsey and started calling me disgusting.

But fair enough - I'll stop for you.

[Cuttooth]

On the subject of racism within the police, this is a shocking incident even by the Met's standards:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ice-arrest

Huugo Boateng was taking part in a charity bike ride with his father along the River Lea in north London when he says he was grabbed from his bike by a plainclothes police officer, threatened with a stun gun and fell face first into thorny bushes.

The 13-year-old told the Observer: “I’d turned around to see if my dad had caught up behind me, and suddenly this man came out of nowhere. He was crazy angry and shouting. I got scared because I thought he might be mugging me or trying to give me corona so I ran, but there was nowhere to go but in the bushes.”

While he was down on the ground, the teenager says the officer pointed a Taser at him and threatened to shoot. The officer then arrested Huugo and put him in handcuffs. Further down the towpath, his father, Andrew, 43, was told to get on his knees and put his hands behind his back. Andrew was also handcuffed. The two were detained, suspected to have been involved in a stabbing in the area.

The Boatengs, who live in Tottenham, say they were shocked and humiliated by the experience. Huugo suffered lacerations to his face and bruises on his legs, and spent that night sleeping on his parents’ bedroom floor, anxious not to be alone.

[...]

Paton described the scene as “racial profiling at its worst”. The photographer, who lives on a boat on the river, had responded to Andrew’s pleas asking someone to film what was going on. “The mood was defensive, borderline aggressive and patronising,” she said. “I was disgusted. It really drove the issue [of racism] home for me. The way they spoke to Andrew, the way they treated him and kept him in handcuffs so long when he could prove so quickly he was completely innocent and the wrong person. It was just so disappointing to see.”

The family were visited by a community officer later that evening. “Huugo didn’t want them to come in so they stayed on the doorstep and asked if we were OK,” said Andrew, who works at City University. He is also active in local projects including coaching a youth football team and volunteering for the outreach programme Kickoff@3 , which is co-run by a black Metropolitan police officer, Michael Wallace.

“I couldn’t vouch for a more humble and more dedicated member of the community,” said Wallace. “The irony is that Kickoff@3 is about building good relationships with youth and the police, and Andy is instrumental in helping with that programme. The bike ride he was doing was organised by us – we were raising money for a homeless charity and a domestic violence one.”

“There has to be some learning from the police,” said Andrew. “I got this when I was a teenager, and you were taught to keep your head down and stay calm. You’d think by now things would have changed and I wouldn’t have to have that conversation with my own kids. I’ve always taught them to trust the police – I’ve worked on youth and knife crime initiatives with the Met.”

Violently arrested while doing a charity bike ride to raise money for an organisation that actively co-operates with the police.

Which part is racist?

They simply stopped someone who matched the description of a male involved in a stabbing very nearby who was believed to be armed. Whether they handled it wrongly is a different discussion but you can’t simply label it racist because it involved a black male. We have no idea how detailed the description was. He may have matched it down to a tee.

Probably the bit where if it was a white person (and the description too) it wouldn't have happened?

I don’t believe that. You have zero proof of that.

Where's the story of it happening to a white kid?

It wouldn’t make the news. I’ve seen a number of people thrown to the floor in a case of mistaken identity. People of all races. The only one I’ve seen with tasers deployed was on a white Eastern European male.

Are you in the police?

Yes

People have no idea what goes on in the real world. Just what is reported in the media. I’m amazed at some of the incidents I know of that never make the media. Our media only report on stories that they think will get them hits and shares for their websites.

I shouldn’t really be talking about this but on Sunday I attended an incident with 6 girls between the ages of 12 and 15. They ended up being police protected due to the circumstances. In doing so 3 of them had to be physically detained. One of them was face planted on the ground and had to go to hospital. People in the street were videoing it. Will this make the news? No of course it won’t as all the girls were white.

You're denying a man and his son their lived experience based on the media not being interested in crimes against white people?!

That incident as you describe it (I get you can't give details - although it's odd you've gone that far ten minutes after chastising younger colleagues!) would also happen to be perfect fodder for the crowd that believes the police should be abolished. Shouldn't we as a society ask whether it's appropriate that a force with the power to physically detain minors is who we think about for all issues? Whether the presence and social reputation of the police can actually escalate those kinds of incidents?

[Return_of_the_STAR]

On the subject of racism within the police, this is a shocking incident even by the Met's standards:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ice-arrest

Huugo Boateng was taking part in a charity bike ride with his father along the River Lea in north London when he says he was grabbed from his bike by a plainclothes police officer, threatened with a stun gun and fell face first into thorny bushes.

The 13-year-old told the Observer: “I’d turned around to see if my dad had caught up behind me, and suddenly this man came out of nowhere. He was crazy angry and shouting. I got scared because I thought he might be mugging me or trying to give me corona so I ran, but there was nowhere to go but in the bushes.”

While he was down on the ground, the teenager says the officer pointed a Taser at him and threatened to shoot. The officer then arrested Huugo and put him in handcuffs. Further down the towpath, his father, Andrew, 43, was told to get on his knees and put his hands behind his back. Andrew was also handcuffed. The two were detained, suspected to have been involved in a stabbing in the area.

The Boatengs, who live in Tottenham, say they were shocked and humiliated by the experience. Huugo suffered lacerations to his face and bruises on his legs, and spent that night sleeping on his parents’ bedroom floor, anxious not to be alone.

[...]

Paton described the scene as “racial profiling at its worst”. The photographer, who lives on a boat on the river, had responded to Andrew’s pleas asking someone to film what was going on. “The mood was defensive, borderline aggressive and patronising,” she said. “I was disgusted. It really drove the issue [of racism] home for me. The way they spoke to Andrew, the way they treated him and kept him in handcuffs so long when he could prove so quickly he was completely innocent and the wrong person. It was just so disappointing to see.”

The family were visited by a community officer later that evening. “Huugo didn’t want them to come in so they stayed on the doorstep and asked if we were OK,” said Andrew, who works at City University. He is also active in local projects including coaching a youth football team and volunteering for the outreach programme Kickoff@3 , which is co-run by a black Metropolitan police officer, Michael Wallace.

“I couldn’t vouch for a more humble and more dedicated member of the community,” said Wallace. “The irony is that Kickoff@3 is about building good relationships with youth and the police, and Andy is instrumental in helping with that programme. The bike ride he was doing was organised by us – we were raising money for a homeless charity and a domestic violence one.”

“There has to be some learning from the police,” said Andrew. “I got this when I was a teenager, and you were taught to keep your head down and stay calm. You’d think by now things would have changed and I wouldn’t have to have that conversation with my own kids. I’ve always taught them to trust the police – I’ve worked on youth and knife crime initiatives with the Met.”

Violently arrested while doing a charity bike ride to raise money for an organisation that actively co-operates with the police.

Which part is racist?

They simply stopped someone who matched the description of a male involved in a stabbing very nearby who was believed to be armed. Whether they handled it wrongly is a different discussion but you can’t simply label it racist because it involved a black male. We have no idea how detailed the description was. He may have matched it down to a tee.

Probably the bit where if it was a white person (and the description too) it wouldn't have happened?

I don’t believe that. You have zero proof of that.

Where's the story of it happening to a white kid?

It wouldn’t make the news. I’ve seen a number of people thrown to the floor in a case of mistaken identity. People of all races. The only one I’ve seen with tasers deployed was on a white Eastern European male.

Are you in the police?

Yes

People have no idea what goes on in the real world. Just what is reported in the media. I’m amazed at some of the incidents I know of that never make the media. Our media only report on stories that they think will get them hits and shares for their websites.

I shouldn’t really be talking about this but on Sunday I attended an incident with 6 girls between the ages of 12 and 15. They ended up being police protected due to the circumstances. In doing so 3 of them had to be physically detained. One of them was face planted on the ground and had to go to hospital. People in the street were videoing it. Will this make the news? No of course it won’t as all the girls were white.

You're denying a man and his son their lived experience based on the media not being interested in crimes against white people?!

That incident as you describe it (I get you can't give details - although it's odd you've gone that far ten minutes after chastising younger colleagues!) would also happen to be perfect fodder for the crowd that believes the police should be abolished. Shouldn't we as a society ask whether it's appropriate that a force with the power to physically detain minors is who we think about for all issues? Whether the presence and social reputation of the police can actually escalate those kinds of incidents?

no I am not. Their opinion doesn’t make it correct. I’m simply saying that I’ve not seen evidence to suggest it was racially motivated. I work on evidence. I’m not saying either side is right as I don’t have the information. I’m simply saying that we don’t know it was racially motivated just because they feel it was. They also haven’t offered any evidence that I’ve read to suggest it was racially motivated other than they feel it was

I thought hard about whether I should have discussed this incident. That why I didn’t go into detail. It’s very different to taking a selfie in front of a dead body.

I’m not sure I get what you mean by the bold bit.

[Tineash]

acab

[Return_of_the_STAR]

acab

We are beautiful

[Tineash]

I meant cats

[Return_of_the_STAR]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/knife-crime-hits-record-with-42-offences-a-day-a4422021.html

Knife crime was committed in London at a rate more than double the national average last year as offences in the capital involving bladed weapons reached record levels.

The Office for National Statistics reported a five per cent rise in overall knife crime in the capital during 2019.

Knife killings also rose, with 87 such homicides in London over the 12-month period. That was 10 more than in 2018 and amounted to a 13 per cent rise.

Today’s figures also show knife crime in London was happening at more than twice the rate elsewhere in the country, with 174 offences per 100,000 residents in the capital. That compares with an average for England and Wales of 81 offences per 100,000 population.

A total of 15,492 knife crimes, not including possession offences, were recorded in the capital, equating to 42 a day. The total, a record high, included 9,759 knife-point robberies, 143 rapes or sexual assaults with a blade, and 4,573 assaults involving a knife.

Digest these figures for a second. 87 people died in London last year specifically as a result of a knife wound. A total of 15,492 knife crimes in a year. And that does not include simple possession which is the most numerous offence. So in 15,492 cases someone used a knife to attack someone in just London alone. That is truly frightening.

[Hypes]

.

What are your thoughts on this story?

twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1276586194969780227

Disgraceful, disgusting. Completely immoral.

Would it happen to murdered white girls?

I hope it never happens again but I feel it’s just as likely to happen to anyone. I’ve seen no evidence that this involved race. I wouldn’t be surprised if this has happened with dead bodies before (of any race) but it’s never been reported to the police. In fact I would be 99% confident that there are selfies of other officers with dead bodies. More and more (particularly younger officers) lack the situational awareness and regularly take photos of themselves at incidents and share them with friends, family and colleagues. They would then sleep walk into taking them at serious incidents like this.

It's interesting that you think this could be relatively common but you deny any racism in the police.

If officers are so unaware of decent behaviour when it comes to murdered girls, why are you so confident that there's no/little racial prejudices amongst the police?

Of course there are people with racial prejudices in the police. There are all over the world, from every race towards another. That’s not going to go away in our life times. I have not denied any racism in the police. I’ve said previously I’ve not witnessed racist behaviour. That’s a very different thing.

I think it’s very common for younger officers to take selfies of themselves at incidents and crime scenes, it’s a worrying trend. They are glued to their phones. But again where is the evidence this happened just because the girls are black? I’m not saying it didn’t but I’ve seen nothing to suggest so. Maybe it will come out that the pictured were shared with racist intent or comment. But we haven’t heard that yet. All we know is they shared selfies of themselves with the bodies in the background.

The mother feels the police fobbed her off when she first reported her daughters missing. She's convinced it was because they are a black family on a council estate.

The police then took selfies with the dead bodies and shared those photos with friends. We've never heard of that with murdered white people. And it's very reminiscent of the old US lynching photos, where the public and the police would proudly pose with the swinging corpses. Again, the mother is absolutely convinced there was racism at play.

Then we have (this isn't the police's fault) the utter lack of news coverage over these murders. Two sisters murdered and it barely registered on the national news? I accept not every murder gets covered, but it'd be strawberry floating everywhere if two white sisters were murdered. This only seemed to become a national story because of the selfies and even then it's not a huge story.

Institutional racism is still rife in this country. It's not the old days of screaming the N word and marching to "send 'em home!" (although we may well get back to that) but it's there. It's hidden, it uses dog whistles, but it's there. And more so in organisations like the police who have such a sense of superiority and untouchability.

I guess I should say "not all police". Just way way way too strawberry floating many of them.

You would be surprised how many murders don’t make the news.

Two young white boys were found dead in a Northamptonshire town a month ago. A male has been arrested. Hasn’t even made the local news. Violence is out of control in this country.

Violence is so out of control in Northamptonshire towns that the local news doesn't have time to report it? Or is there another reason those murders have not been reported?

I honestly don’t know but in my opinion violence is out of control all over the country. There are incidents that involved knifes everyday in Northampton. Ten years ago an incident involving a knife was local news and a big deal in the force. We would all be told about it in briefing. Now it’s just daily business.

I don't know what could have happened in those ten years...

[Return_of_the_STAR]

.

What are your thoughts on this story?

twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1276586194969780227

Disgraceful, disgusting. Completely immoral.

Would it happen to murdered white girls?

I hope it never happens again but I feel it’s just as likely to happen to anyone. I’ve seen no evidence that this involved race. I wouldn’t be surprised if this has happened with dead bodies before (of any race) but it’s never been reported to the police. In fact I would be 99% confident that there are selfies of other officers with dead bodies. More and more (particularly younger officers) lack the situational awareness and regularly take photos of themselves at incidents and share them with friends, family and colleagues. They would then sleep walk into taking them at serious incidents like this.

It's interesting that you think this could be relatively common but you deny any racism in the police.

If officers are so unaware of decent behaviour when it comes to murdered girls, why are you so confident that there's no/little racial prejudices amongst the police?

Of course there are people with racial prejudices in the police. There are all over the world, from every race towards another. That’s not going to go away in our life times. I have not denied any racism in the police. I’ve said previously I’ve not witnessed racist behaviour. That’s a very different thing.

I think it’s very common for younger officers to take selfies of themselves at incidents and crime scenes, it’s a worrying trend. They are glued to their phones. But again where is the evidence this happened just because the girls are black? I’m not saying it didn’t but I’ve seen nothing to suggest so. Maybe it will come out that the pictured were shared with racist intent or comment. But we haven’t heard that yet. All we know is they shared selfies of themselves with the bodies in the background.

The mother feels the police fobbed her off when she first reported her daughters missing. She's convinced it was because they are a black family on a council estate.

The police then took selfies with the dead bodies and shared those photos with friends. We've never heard of that with murdered white people. And it's very reminiscent of the old US lynching photos, where the public and the police would proudly pose with the swinging corpses. Again, the mother is absolutely convinced there was racism at play.

Then we have (this isn't the police's fault) the utter lack of news coverage over these murders. Two sisters murdered and it barely registered on the national news? I accept not every murder gets covered, but it'd be strawberry floating everywhere if two white sisters were murdered. This only seemed to become a national story because of the selfies and even then it's not a huge story.

Institutional racism is still rife in this country. It's not the old days of screaming the N word and marching to "send 'em home!" (although we may well get back to that) but it's there. It's hidden, it uses dog whistles, but it's there. And more so in organisations like the police who have such a sense of superiority and untouchability.

I guess I should say "not all police". Just way way way too strawberry floating many of them.

You would be surprised how many murders don’t make the news.

Two young white boys were found dead in a Northamptonshire town a month ago. A male has been arrested. Hasn’t even made the local news. Violence is out of control in this country.

Violence is so out of control in Northamptonshire towns that the local news doesn't have time to report it? Or is there another reason those murders have not been reported?

I honestly don’t know but in my opinion violence is out of control all over the country. There are incidents that involved knifes everyday in Northampton. Ten years ago an incident involving a knife was local news and a big deal in the force. We would all be told about it in briefing. Now it’s just daily business.

I don't know what could have happened in those ten years...

Tory government? Austerity?

[Drumstick]

Another great reason not to go anywhere near London.

[Knoyleo]

Another great reason not to go anywhere near London.

You aren't going to get stabbed on a day trip to visit the museums, so I really wouldn't worry about it.

[Tomous]

Pub stabbing near British Museum leaves man fighting for life

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3385069/b ... old-crown/

[KK]

I went to London expecting to get stabbed and instead I got chucked off a roof.

[Lex-Man]

Pub stabbing near British Museum leaves man fighting for life

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3385069/b ... old-crown/

Well yeah if you go near the British Museum things get a bit dodgy but over near the Victoria and Albert, Science and natural history museums you'll be fine.