Politics Thread 6

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Who will you vote for at the next General Election?

Conservative
16
10%
Labour
64
41%
Liberal Democrat
28
18%
Green
22
14%
SNP
16
10%
Brexit Party
4
3%
UKIP
2
1%
Plaid Cymru
3
2%
DUP
1
1%
Sinn Fein
2
1%
The Independent Group for Change
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 158
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:08 pm

Monkey Man wrote:

twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1406315232583061510



That's an interesting development although not a massive shock. He's finished as an MP though hasn't he?

Last edited by Return_of_the_STAR on Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tomous
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Tomous » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:08 pm

Make him party leader, more chance than Keir

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Jenuall » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:10 pm

And yet top story on the BBC is about Biden's dog dying

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That's not a growth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by That's not a growth » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:26 pm

Jenuall wrote:And yet top story on the BBC is about Biden's dog dying


In fairness, it's marked as an exclusive on the guardian so might take a little while to hit other news providers.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Qikz » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:15 pm

strawberry float yes Bercow.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:44 pm

I wonder if Bercow fancies running as an MP again.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Dual » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:52 pm

Bercow :wub:

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by VlaSoul » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:41 pm

Monkey Man wrote:

twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1406315232583061510


hey he was the chancellor of my uni
strawberry float him

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by That's not a growth » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:28 am

VlaSoul wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:

twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1406315232583061510


hey he was the chancellor of my uni
strawberry float him


I generally worry that 'the left' will never do as well as the right because of mentalities like this - 'the right' seem much more willing to use opportunities where possible, even to the point of inconsistency and seemingly to have no morals.

In theory John Bercow defecting to Labour should be used to help push the narrative that the Tories are crumbling from within, which combined with the election loss this week could be a strong narrative to build momentum with. But instead you'll get some people going "I don't like him, and I would rather someone else joins instead. I'm going to talk about that.".

It comes down to 'what's your goal, and are you trying to achieve the goal". The Tories, for example, seem to have a goal of sticking in power at all costs, hence inconsistency. But saying you don't like someone who deflected to an opposition party - what's the goal there? Is there someone else you were hoping that would get the position, that would work better for Labour in the long term? Do you not think that trying to make the Tories look weaker is not a desirable goal - you can't just win elections by getting votes, you need to ensure they get less than you and get people to switch, after all.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Moggy » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:57 am

Bercow has had a pretty amazing transformation across his life. He's gone from extremely right wing, calling for the repatriation of immigrants when he was in the Monday Club, to a gradually more centre-right Tory and now across to Labour.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Tomous » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:01 am

It's pretty easy for the Tories to spin this: Bercow is bitter about not getting a peerage and he's a big remainer so he's joined the party of remain.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Squinty » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:06 am


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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Knoyleo » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:47 am

That's not a growth wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:

twitter.com/ObserverUK/status/1406315232583061510


hey he was the chancellor of my uni
strawberry float him


I generally worry that 'the left' will never do as well as the right because of mentalities like this - 'the right' seem much more willing to use opportunities where possible, even to the point of inconsistency and seemingly to have no morals.

In theory John Bercow defecting to Labour should be used to help push the narrative that the Tories are crumbling from within, which combined with the election loss this week could be a strong narrative to build momentum with. But instead you'll get some people going "I don't like him, and I would rather someone else joins instead. I'm going to talk about that.".

It comes down to 'what's your goal, and are you trying to achieve the goal". The Tories, for example, seem to have a goal of sticking in power at all costs, hence inconsistency. But saying you don't like someone who deflected to an opposition party - what's the goal there? Is there someone else you were hoping that would get the position, that would work better for Labour in the long term? Do you not think that trying to make the Tories look weaker is not a desirable goal - you can't just win elections by getting votes, you need to ensure they get less than you and get people to switch, after all.

Image

Honestly though, I think Bercow defecting to Labour says more about the state of the party than it does him, and is simply more evidence of Labour heading firmly back to the centre, being the party of nice wishy washy liberalism, rather than one that wants to fundamentally reform broken systems and actually address the root causes of inequality.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by That » Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:08 pm

It's not "left in-fighting" to shrug at Bercow joining Labour because neither Bercow nor Labour are left.

If you're a liberal and you want to use this to propagandise for your liberal party it's on you to go do that.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by That » Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:32 pm

In other Labour news, an official heads to the Mail to blame predicted low turnout for Labour in Batley on Muslim "antisemitism":

twitter.com/tbtpeters/status/1406569612167241730



Having a big Islamophobic tantrum in a fascist newspaper is certainly an unorthodox election campaign strategy for Labour in Batley. Let's see if it pays off!

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Tineash » Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:07 pm

That is a truly shameful excuse, and terribly damaging for Muslim Britons, to be automatically designated as anti-Semitic.

That really strawberry floating gets my goat. This mummy strawberry floater should go. Time to strawberry floating go.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by VlaSoul » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:34 pm

That's not a growth wrote:I generally worry that 'the left' will never do as well as the right because of mentalities like this - 'the right' seem much more willing to use opportunities where possible, even to the point of inconsistency and seemingly to have no morals.

In theory John Bercow defecting to Labour should be used to help push the narrative that the Tories are crumbling from within, which combined with the election loss this week could be a strong narrative to build momentum with. But instead you'll get some people going "I don't like him, and I would rather someone else joins instead. I'm going to talk about that.".

It comes down to 'what's your goal, and are you trying to achieve the goal". The Tories, for example, seem to have a goal of sticking in power at all costs, hence inconsistency. But saying you don't like someone who deflected to an opposition party - what's the goal there? Is there someone else you were hoping that would get the position, that would work better for Labour in the long term? Do you not think that trying to make the Tories look weaker is not a desirable goal - you can't just win elections by getting votes, you need to ensure they get less than you and get people to switch, after all.

I am left wing. I am not a liberal, I am not a centrist, and I'm not centre left. What I want is representation of socialism in mainstream politics, and I almost had that during Corbyn's leadership (still more centre left but w/e) but Bercow defecting to Labour is very clearly indicative of the party shifting back towards the centre, which is the opposite of what I want. Honestly I would have this reaction towards any Tory joining Labour, and probably most Lib Dems too.

The right being less choosy about how they decide to stay in power is indeed a problem, but it is also their own moral failing and I have no interest in doing what they do. I stand by the idea that left wing politics is simply more rational; and as such we do not need to operate in the manner that right dictates.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by sawyerpip » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:41 pm

VlaSoul wrote:
That's not a growth wrote:I generally worry that 'the left' will never do as well as the right because of mentalities like this - 'the right' seem much more willing to use opportunities where possible, even to the point of inconsistency and seemingly to have no morals.

In theory John Bercow defecting to Labour should be used to help push the narrative that the Tories are crumbling from within, which combined with the election loss this week could be a strong narrative to build momentum with. But instead you'll get some people going "I don't like him, and I would rather someone else joins instead. I'm going to talk about that.".

It comes down to 'what's your goal, and are you trying to achieve the goal". The Tories, for example, seem to have a goal of sticking in power at all costs, hence inconsistency. But saying you don't like someone who deflected to an opposition party - what's the goal there? Is there someone else you were hoping that would get the position, that would work better for Labour in the long term? Do you not think that trying to make the Tories look weaker is not a desirable goal - you can't just win elections by getting votes, you need to ensure they get less than you and get people to switch, after all.

I am left wing. I am not a liberal, I am not a centrist, and I'm not centre left. What I want is representation of socialism in mainstream politics, and I almost had that during Corbyn's leadership (still more centre left but w/e) but Bercow defecting to Labour is very clearly indicative of the party shifting back towards the centre, which is the opposite of what I want. Honestly I would have this reaction towards any Tory joining Labour, and probably most Lib Dems too.

The right being less choosy about how they decide to stay in power is indeed a problem, but it is also their own moral failing and I have no interest in doing what they do. I stand by the idea that left wing politics is simply more rational; and as such we do not need to operate in the manner that right dictates.


Do you not think a lesser of two evils approach might be at least somewhat useful though?

I would consider myself left wing but aside from a complete revolution I don't really see how it's a feasible option at this point. Although I guess maybe that means I'm part of the problem.

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by BID0 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:21 pm

sawyerpip wrote:
VlaSoul wrote:
That's not a growth wrote:I generally worry that 'the left' will never do as well as the right because of mentalities like this - 'the right' seem much more willing to use opportunities where possible, even to the point of inconsistency and seemingly to have no morals.

In theory John Bercow defecting to Labour should be used to help push the narrative that the Tories are crumbling from within, which combined with the election loss this week could be a strong narrative to build momentum with. But instead you'll get some people going "I don't like him, and I would rather someone else joins instead. I'm going to talk about that.".

It comes down to 'what's your goal, and are you trying to achieve the goal". The Tories, for example, seem to have a goal of sticking in power at all costs, hence inconsistency. But saying you don't like someone who deflected to an opposition party - what's the goal there? Is there someone else you were hoping that would get the position, that would work better for Labour in the long term? Do you not think that trying to make the Tories look weaker is not a desirable goal - you can't just win elections by getting votes, you need to ensure they get less than you and get people to switch, after all.

I am left wing. I am not a liberal, I am not a centrist, and I'm not centre left. What I want is representation of socialism in mainstream politics, and I almost had that during Corbyn's leadership (still more centre left but w/e) but Bercow defecting to Labour is very clearly indicative of the party shifting back towards the centre, which is the opposite of what I want. Honestly I would have this reaction towards any Tory joining Labour, and probably most Lib Dems too.

The right being less choosy about how they decide to stay in power is indeed a problem, but it is also their own moral failing and I have no interest in doing what they do. I stand by the idea that left wing politics is simply more rational; and as such we do not need to operate in the manner that right dictates.


Do you not think a lesser of two evils approach might be at least somewhat useful though?

I would consider myself left wing but aside from a complete revolution I don't really see how it's a feasible option at this point. Although I guess maybe that means I'm part of the problem.

The lesser of two evils moves in the same direction though, just at a slower pace. The centre ground and the debate with it is still controlled by the right

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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Winckle » Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:42 am

Tineash wrote:That is a truly shameful excuse, and terribly damaging for Muslim Britons, to be automatically designated as anti-Semitic.

That really strawberry floating gets my goat. This mummy strawberry floater should go. Time to strawberry floating go.

It's got to be Luke "Nukem" Akehurst as that "senior Labour source".

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