Politics Thread 6

[Peter Crisp]

Also related to
Michael J Fox
Dr Fox
Fox McCloud
Fox from Animals of Farthing Wood
Richard Ayoade

You forgot about the best Fox

Fox Mulder .

[Tomous]

Fox from Animals of Farthing Wood

GOAT right there

[Hypes]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ish-prison

We're now importing foreign criminals to use our prisons
British prisons for British crooks!

[Grumpy David]

I did think it's an interesting point that across the West, centre left parties have not had much luck with winning elections in the last decade. It's not uniquely the UK Labour Party that has struggled.

It adds more credence to the longer term issue that globalisation and deindustrialisation has affected their success rather than the UK specific short term issues of the useless Corbyn or Brexit policy that turned off both Leavers and Remainers. Or perhaps the medium term issue of Iraq (I seriously doubt this is why former Labour voters switched to UKIP then to the Tories). If any medium term issue affected Labour in the latest elections, it's the legacy of EU enlargement in 2004, not Iraq. Iraq damaged Blair's legacy, but I don't believe it did long term critical damage to the Labour Party.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210512082602/https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/tony-blair-without-total-change-labour-will-die

His article in The New Statesman is behind a paywall but the above Web archive link should still work.

[DML]

Fox from Animals of Farthing Wood

GOAT right there

I don't think it's hyperbole to say he was the greatest leader of ALL TIME.

[Moggy]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

[Victor Mildew]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

The Spice Girls

[Cuttooth]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

How is saying there’s more to the 1997 victory than one man "overwriting history"?

[Rocsteady]

It's a bit glib to state there were other elements like 'historical and material factors' though isn't it, you can say that about literally every election ever.

[Moggy]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

How is saying there’s more to the 1997 victory than one man "overwriting history"?

There is more to it of course, the Tories were despised even by some Tories by then. And Major was not exactly inspiring to anyone.

But Blair's popularity and political skill in 1997 is almost always overlooked by people looking back, because of the utter disaster of the Iraq invasion. Which is fine when discussing Blair as a whole, but rewriting history when thoughts of Iraq are clouding the judgement of the 1997 victory.

[Cuttooth]

It's a bit glib to state there were other elements like 'historical and material factors' though isn't it, you can say that about literally every election ever.

Right, which is maybe why their relevance to contemporary politics will likely diminish over time. What exactly does anyone learn from election victories in 1997, 2001, and 2005 that you don’t from defeats in 2010, 2015, 2017, and 2019? Or even victories in other comparative countries over the last couple of years?

[Cuttooth]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

How is saying there’s more to the 1997 victory than one man "overwriting history"?

There is more to it of course, the Tories were despised even by some Tories by then. And Major was not exactly inspiring to anyone.

But Blair's popularity and political skill in 1997 is almost always overlooked by people looking back, because of the utter disaster of the Iraq invasion. Which is fine when discussing Blair as a whole, but rewriting history when thoughts of Iraq are clouding the judgement of the 1997 victory.

Probably helps to inherit the leadership of a party 30 points up on the government in opinion polls!

[Ironhide]

Any Tory PM would have also sent UK troops to Iiraq based on the evidence being presented at the time.

[Moggy]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

How is saying there’s more to the 1997 victory than one man "overwriting history"?

There is more to it of course, the Tories were despised even by some Tories by then. And Major was not exactly inspiring to anyone.

But Blair's popularity and political skill in 1997 is almost always overlooked by people looking back, because of the utter disaster of the Iraq invasion. Which is fine when discussing Blair as a whole, but rewriting history when thoughts of Iraq are clouding the judgement of the 1997 victory.

Probably helps to inherit the leadership of a party 30 points up on the government in opinion polls!

Probably.

That doesn't change my points though.

[Cuttooth]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

How is saying there’s more to the 1997 victory than one man "overwriting history"?

There is more to it of course, the Tories were despised even by some Tories by then. And Major was not exactly inspiring to anyone.

But Blair's popularity and political skill in 1997 is almost always overlooked by people looking back, because of the utter disaster of the Iraq invasion. Which is fine when discussing Blair as a whole, but rewriting history when thoughts of Iraq are clouding the judgement of the 1997 victory.

Probably helps to inherit the leadership of a party 30 points up on the government in opinion polls!

Probably.

That doesn't change my points though.

That people are rewriting an historic event by broadening the view around it, and are only doing so because of a separate event they didn't even mention?

Anyway, Jo Cox's sister is interested in running in the Batley and Spen by-election for Labour to take the constituency that used to be occupied by her. Hopefully she might at least be considered and the central office doesn't do another disastrous stitch up job like in Hartlepool.

twitter.com/RobParsonsYP/status/1392512078318080006

[Ecno]

Nobody mentioned Iraq.

Oh. Maybe there's another reason the history of 1997 is being overwritten.

How is saying there’s more to the 1997 victory than one man "overwriting history"?

There is more to it of course, the Tories were despised even by some Tories by then. And Major was not exactly inspiring to anyone.

But Blair's popularity and political skill in 1997 is almost always overlooked by people looking back, because of the utter disaster of the Iraq invasion. Which is fine when discussing Blair as a whole, but rewriting history when thoughts of Iraq are clouding the judgement of the 1997 victory.

Probably helps to inherit the leadership of a party 30 points up on the government in opinion polls!

Probably.

That doesn't change my points though.

That people are rewriting an historic event by broadening the view around it, and are only doing so because of a separate event they didn't even mention?

Anyway, Jo Cox's sister is interested in running in the Batley and Spen by-election for Labour to take the consistency that used to be occupied by her. Hopefully she might at least be considered and the central office doesn't do another disastrous stitch up job like in Hartlepool.

twitter.com/RobParsonsYP/status/1392512078318080006

It's being voted on by local members. Having seen the candidate list so far, they'd be foolish not to pick her.

[Squinty]

Any Tory PM would have also sent UK troops to Iiraq based on the evidence being presented at the time.

I firmly believe this as well.

[Prototype]

That being said, there's a big and easily articulable difference between supporting policies designed to save lives during a pandemic, and supporting policies designed to disenfranchise minorities.

Which policy are you referring to here? Assume the latter is in reference to compelled voter ID?

[Cuttooth]

The government appears to have accepted that their new University Free Speech laws will force universities to platform Holocaust deniers.

A fun classic for the "debate solves everything!" crowd.

Just sickening.

[That]

That being said, there's a big and easily articulable difference between supporting policies designed to save lives during a pandemic, and supporting policies designed to disenfranchise minorities.

Which policy are you referring to here? Assume the latter is in reference to compelled voter ID?

Mm, that's right. I was replying to a point CRD made comparing support to vaccine passports to support for voting ID. Sorry if I wasn't clear!