Politics Thread 6

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Who will you vote for at the next General Election?

Conservative
10
10%
Labour
38
37%
Liberal Democrat
25
25%
Green
18
18%
SNP
6
6%
Brexit Party
1
1%
UKIP
1
1%
Plaid Cymru
1
1%
DUP
0
No votes
Sinn Fein
2
2%
The Independent Group for Change
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 102
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Squinty
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Squinty » Sun May 17, 2020 12:20 pm

By extension, that means Johnson isn't a man of the people.

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Memento Mori
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Memento Mori » Mon May 18, 2020 11:08 am

Not sure a paper owned by the 4th Viscount Rothermere should be determining who is and who is not a man of the people.

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Corazon de Leon » Mon May 18, 2020 11:12 am

Lex-Man wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Who said he was a man of the people? Or is this the right-wing media trying to force a narrative?

Hmm, I wonder.

If wealth is the default factor in determining whether someone is "of the people" then there isn't a single MP that can be said to be "of the people"!


I'm not defending the article, which is obviously silly, but don't you think you're on to something there?

There aren't very many MPs that were poor when they became MPs, or have any genuine personal connection to poor communities. You'd agree that's a problem democratically, right?

Your comment reminded me of this.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... sal-credit

There was a moment, as Paul Sweeney filled out his online application for universal credit, when the reality of the box-ticking hit home. “You’re thinking, Christ, when I was an MP I used to spend my days advocating for people who were caught up in all these benefits problems, and now here I am. It was bizarre.”

At the start of the year, it is fair to say that the former Scottish Labour member for Glasgow North East had no expectation of becoming one of the 2 million people who have applied for universal credit benefits since lockdown measures were implemented.


I went to school with him. Certainly wouldn’t call him a man of the people.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Moggy » Mon May 18, 2020 2:37 pm

Image

What a twat. :lol:

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Cuttooth » Mon May 18, 2020 2:41 pm

It was nice to see him get immediately dunked on by historians pointing out many of his fictional complaints happened during the Blitz.

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Godzilla
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Godzilla » Mon May 18, 2020 3:06 pm

Moggy wrote:Image

What a twat. :lol:


If he wants people to behave like they did during the blitz then when someone dies of Corona their neighbours should loot the home of the decreased for toilet paper and tinned tomatoes.

Wish my image sig would work
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Memento Mori
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Memento Mori » Wed May 20, 2020 12:09 pm

Even more so than usual, the contrast between Starmer and Johnson in PMQs right now is striking. Johnson is flailing around like a wounded gazelle. It's an embarrassment.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Moggy » Wed May 20, 2020 12:55 pm

Memento Mori wrote:Even more so than usual, the contrast between Starmer and Johnson in PMQs right now is striking. Johnson is flailing around like a wounded gazelle. It's an embarrassment.


These headlines seem a long time ago :lol:

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Cuttooth » Wed May 20, 2020 1:24 pm

Labour are pushing the government to drop the NHS surcharge for foreign NHS and care workers. Good, but only if this somehow sets up dropping the surcharge for everyone.

"Foreigners should pay twice for the NHS" is not a policy worth supporting, even with exemptions.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Tineash » Wed May 20, 2020 1:25 pm

Cuttooth wrote:Good, but only if this somehow sets up dropping the surcharge for everyone.


Unlikely, from Mr Sensible.

"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
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Meep
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Location: Belfast

PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Meep » Wed May 20, 2020 8:05 pm

I can understand having a small charge for those who have not been in the country for very long however if you having been living in the UK, working and paying tax for years then you should be given equal care to anyone else without paying and obviously it should be waved automatically for anyone who comes to fulfil a vital public service.

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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Karl_ » Wed May 20, 2020 9:24 pm

Meep wrote:I can understand having a small charge for those who have not been in the country for very long

"I can understand having a small amount of racism"

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<]:^D
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by <]:^D » Wed May 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Karl_ thats drastically unfair

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Tineash
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Tineash » Wed May 20, 2020 10:16 pm

You were hoping for a medium amount of racism? Look, just tell me what you want and I'll turn the dial to the right setting.

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Winckle
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Location: Liverpool

PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Winckle » Wed May 20, 2020 10:24 pm


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Karl_
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Karl_ » Thu May 21, 2020 12:33 am

<]:^D wrote:Karl_ thats drastically unfair

It's not. What's drastically unfair is the government using their own underfunding of the NHS as an excuse to make visa applications for migrants prohibitively expensive.

"We should charge migrants extra to discourage them from coming here, particularly if they're poor, and pretend it's because migration is a drain on the health service" is a far-right policy and it's still far-right even if you suggest only doing it a little bit.

This liberal urge to accept far-right ideas at face value and argue for meaningless tweaks to them rather than rejecting them outright is going to get us all killed.

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satriales
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by satriales » Thu May 21, 2020 6:37 am

I think the idea behind a small charge if you're not here for long is to stop people coming here just to have a free operation and then returning home. I know someone from Canada who did that, although I always thought Canada already had free healthcare so I'm not sure why they needed to.

Whether health tourism is actually a big issue that we need to fix or not, I don't know. But I don't think it's racist to oppose it.

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That's not a growth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by That's not a growth » Thu May 21, 2020 6:54 am

satriales wrote:I think the idea behind a small charge if you're not here for long is to stop people coming here just to have a free operation and then returning home. I know someone from Canada who did that, although I always thought Canada already had free healthcare so I'm not sure why they needed to.

Whether health tourism is actually a big issue that we need to fix or not, I don't know. But I don't think it's racist to oppose it.


I thought we were talking about charging people who give treatment, not receive it.

Edit: just heard about it on the radio, I've been reading it wrong.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Cuttooth » Thu May 21, 2020 7:36 am

satriales wrote:I think the idea behind a small charge if you're not here for long is to stop people coming here just to have a free operation and then returning home. I know someone from Canada who did that, although I always thought Canada already had free healthcare so I'm not sure why they needed to.

Whether health tourism is actually a big issue that we need to fix or not, I don't know. But I don't think it's racist to oppose it.

It's part of the 'hostile environment' and directly leads to cases like Slyvester Marshall and Taitusi Ratucaucau, a foreign born army veteran, being told to pay tens of thousands of pounds for cancer treatment. Health tourism such as you describe is the tiniest of wedges within a wider health tourism cost.

Based on rough estimates, the cost of treatment for people who deliberately arrive in this country to have NHS treatment via A&E was £60-80m in 2013. The cost of those who have registered with a GP but don't live here all the time (including British born residents who live overseas) was estimated to be £50-200m.

The cost of people simply having to visit A&E and other services while they're on holiday or working here for a short time is something like £1.8b.

Altogether that is 2% of the annual NHS budget for 2013, with the very deliberate, tabloid headline spawning cases of health tourism equating to 0.09% of it. The question simply should be: does it matter?

Does it matter enough to set up surcharge schemes that are already in place from the first Cameron/Clegg government, and add to the cost of moving and living here, to add an extra workload to NHS staff in chasing for immigration papers, and to result in the hardship for those specific cases mentioned above?

And if that thin wedge does matter on principal over the others, why does it? What is it about a relatively inconsequential number of foreigners travelling for treatment that means it requires a very disproportionate response to combat it?

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Politics Thread 6
by Drumstick » Thu May 21, 2020 8:17 am

Great post.

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
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