Politics Thread 6

[Moggy]

Regarding that kid getting shot and stabbed - what the strawberry float is going on with gooseberry fool like this? Seems to be happening all the time. strawberry floating animals

It's become normalised. It's such a problem and isn't getting the attention it needs. The kids involved are getting younger and younger as well.

Yeah that's the bit that just boggles my mind, I just can't comprehend how a child can do something like that to another child. It's mob mentality in the extreme. When I was 14, the worst a group of kids would do is maybe nick some sweets if they'd been egged on by each other, now it seems they commit horrific murders for apparent slights or disrespect.

I think in general you'd label someone that stabbed and shot an innocent child as a psychopath, but surely all these kids can't be psychopaths? It's just desperate, the absolute strawberry floating state of it.

Are there stats that it is in fact getting worse? I'm sure I heard similar stories of kids getting shot/stabbed by other kids when I was growing up in the 90s.

I can't find anything that shows age of offender/victim, but murder rates are low compared to the past.

Thanks.

I think we need to be very careful about supposing these crimes are getting worse without evidence - it's easy to think things were better back in our day. Not saying you're wrong preezy as i'm also not an expert but recency bias and rolling news surely play a part.

We are all getting older, it's no surprise a few of us are now saying "the youth of today are terrible, it was better in my day!"

Knife crime is definitely on the increase. 25k related crimes in 2013/14 to 49k related crimes in 2019/20. It only drops last year to 41k due to covid. From experience it’s back with a vengeance this year but you will have to wait till next year for the stats.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn04304/

https://benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-statistics/

https://crimestoppers-uk.org/keeping-sa ... -in-detail

Is knife crime on the increase, or is it that changes in legislation and/or police priorities have changed? Is carrying a knife now being recorded more often, where it was more ignored in the past?

From your commons library link:



From that graph, it looks to me like the early 2010s saw a dip, but the graph overall doesn't show today is much different to the last 20 years.

The big problem with FCE is that it is a very specific recording. If you discharge yourself as a lot of stabbing victims, particularly those young and involved in crime do or transferred to a different hospital or care provider then you are not included in the figures.

A finished consultant episode (FCE) is a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one healthcare provider.

As you say another issue is police recording practices have changed over the years but so have they in the NHS and other bodies. It’s always the case and makes it very difficult to compare records.

All I can do is talk from personal experience and we are definitely dealing with a lot more violence, particularly involving younger males.

I doubt people are discharging themselves at a higher rate now then they were in 2008 or 1998.

Recording practices will change, but I'd be more inclined to trust the NHS figures for this sort of thing. What we care about are injuries/deaths. The NHS can give us a decent picture of that.

The police figures are much harder to get a complete picture over time. New laws will change what is and isn't a crime. A government crackdown will cause figures to spike. Older police who think "well I always carried a penknife, I'm not arresting a kid for it" will have retired. New ways of recording it change the stats.

Personal experience is meaningless when we are talking about a country of almost 70 million people. Personally I think young people today are better than they were 10 years ago. And they are a LOT better than they were in the '90s.

[Garth]

Bullshit. I saw the tweet from Dominic Penna while it was up & he was obviously taken aback at the universally negative reaction (as if we’re supposed to chortle along with the most senior journos in the country drinking and partying with the government). So now they have to try and sweep it into the memory hole.

The deleted tweets:

[Tineash]

Let Nadine Dorries destroy the BBC, I just don’t care any more.

[Victor Mildew]

The BBC are so far up Boris Johnson's ass, they'll be picking sweet corn out ofmtheir teeth for years.

[Tineash]

Also remembered; the BBC told staff members they couldn’t attend Pride because it would be seen to affect their impartiality.

[Jenuall]

The BBC is broken and suffering from a huge number of problems, but the Tories completely strawberry floating it to death is still a bad thing

[Moggy]

The BBC is broken and suffering from a huge number of problems, but the Tories completely strawberry floating it to death is still a bad thing

This.

[captain red dog]

Bullshit. I saw the tweet from Dominic Penna while it was up & he was obviously taken aback at the universally negative reaction (as if we’re supposed to chortle along with the most senior journos in the country drinking and partying with the government). So now they have to try and sweep it into the memory hole.

The deleted tweets:

This is absolutely disgraceful. Absolutely massive conflict of interest.

[Victor Mildew]

EPIC BANTS

[Oblomov Boblomov]

The latest Question Time is a satisfying watch. The audience was recruited 52/48 in favour of Brexit, but the content is 100/0 in opposition to how it has turned out and against the government in general. It is basically an episode of 'Everyone vs Nadhim Zahawi' .

[KK]

Whether true or not, anyone who has worked in journalism or PR in any form (whether it be music, videogames, politics...) will know this sounds completely plausible, and I think social media has only now made it obvious to the public. Far too much incestuous chumocracy.

[Return_of_the_STAR]

Regarding that kid getting shot and stabbed - what the strawberry float is going on with gooseberry fool like this? Seems to be happening all the time. strawberry floating animals

It's become normalised. It's such a problem and isn't getting the attention it needs. The kids involved are getting younger and younger as well.

Yeah that's the bit that just boggles my mind, I just can't comprehend how a child can do something like that to another child. It's mob mentality in the extreme. When I was 14, the worst a group of kids would do is maybe nick some sweets if they'd been egged on by each other, now it seems they commit horrific murders for apparent slights or disrespect.

I think in general you'd label someone that stabbed and shot an innocent child as a psychopath, but surely all these kids can't be psychopaths? It's just desperate, the absolute strawberry floating state of it.

Are there stats that it is in fact getting worse? I'm sure I heard similar stories of kids getting shot/stabbed by other kids when I was growing up in the 90s.

I can't find anything that shows age of offender/victim, but murder rates are low compared to the past.

Thanks.

I think we need to be very careful about supposing these crimes are getting worse without evidence - it's easy to think things were better back in our day. Not saying you're wrong preezy as i'm also not an expert but recency bias and rolling news surely play a part.

We are all getting older, it's no surprise a few of us are now saying "the youth of today are terrible, it was better in my day!"

Knife crime is definitely on the increase. 25k related crimes in 2013/14 to 49k related crimes in 2019/20. It only drops last year to 41k due to covid. From experience it’s back with a vengeance this year but you will have to wait till next year for the stats.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn04304/

https://benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-statistics/

https://crimestoppers-uk.org/keeping-sa ... -in-detail

Is knife crime on the increase, or is it that changes in legislation and/or police priorities have changed? Is carrying a knife now being recorded more often, where it was more ignored in the past?

From your commons library link:



From that graph, it looks to me like the early 2010s saw a dip, but the graph overall doesn't show today is much different to the last 20 years.

The big problem with FCE is that it is a very specific recording. If you discharge yourself as a lot of stabbing victims, particularly those young and involved in crime do or transferred to a different hospital or care provider then you are not included in the figures.

A finished consultant episode (FCE) is a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one healthcare provider.

As you say another issue is police recording practices have changed over the years but so have they in the NHS and other bodies. It’s always the case and makes it very difficult to compare records.

All I can do is talk from personal experience and we are definitely dealing with a lot more violence, particularly involving younger males.

I doubt people are discharging themselves at a higher rate now then they were in 2008 or 1998.

Recording practices will change, but I'd be more inclined to trust the NHS figures for this sort of thing. What we care about are injuries/deaths. The NHS can give us a decent picture of that.

The police figures are much harder to get a complete picture over time. New laws will change what is and isn't a crime. A government crackdown will cause figures to spike. Older police who think "well I always carried a penknife, I'm not arresting a kid for it" will have retired. New ways of recording it change the stats.

Personal experience is meaningless when we are talking about a country of almost 70 million people. Personally I think young people today are better than they were 10 years ago. And they are a LOT better than they were in the '90s.

So is your personal experience meaningless or not

I would say in general the younger population are becoming more considerate, polite and aware of various important issues etc. the good kids are better than they were before however I also believe that the pool of idiots has grown. I’m dealing with an ever increasing number of rude, entitled, disruptive kids in larger groups than before and in areas of the town that you wouldn’t previously have seen them. School safeguarding staff that I speak to regularly say this as well. Again this is down to personal experience which is hard to quantify.

[Return_of_the_STAR]

The latest Question Time is a satisfying watch. The audience was recruited 52/48 in favour of Brexit, but the content is 100/0 in opposition to how it has turned out and against the government in general. It is basically an episode of 'Everyone vs Nadhim Zahawi' .

If I can get my daughter to go to sleep I’ll give it a watch. Sounds great. My wife won’t let me watch it when it’s on

[KK]

There's a good documentary series that started on BBC2 last week called Don't Exclude Me. I watched episode 1 last night:

With school exclusions at their highest in a decade, behavioural expert Marie Gentles visits Milton Hall Primary School in Southend to help the school manage their most challenging pupils. Marie previously spent ten years as the headteacher of a pupil referral unit, and her experience working with children outside of mainstream education has helped her develop techniques that can help avoid exclusions completely.

The film follows her time at the school as she helps teachers and parents work together to keep children in class. She starts with eight-year-old Jack, who is struggling to contain his emotions in school. Her second pupil is six-year-old Oscar, who has already had three fixed term exclusions, where he has been sent away from school. At home mum and dad are also struggling to cope – can she help them?.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001046t

[Knoyleo]

There's a good documentary series that started on BBC2 last week called Don't Exclude Me. I watched episode 1 last night:

With school exclusions at their highest in a decade, behavioural expert Marie Gentles visits Milton Hall Primary School in Southend to help the school manage their most challenging pupils. Marie previously spent ten years as the headteacher of a pupil referral unit, and her experience working with children outside of mainstream education has helped her develop techniques that can help avoid exclusions completely.

The film follows her time at the school as she helps teachers and parents work together to keep children in class. She starts with eight-year-old Jack, who is struggling to contain his emotions in school. Her second pupil is six-year-old Oscar, who has already had three fixed term exclusions, where he has been sent away from school. At home mum and dad are also struggling to cope – can she help them?.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001046t

Yep, it's an excellent program. My wife is a teacher, albeit at secondary school rather than primary, but as she's worked as head of Y7 for a few years, she ends up dealing a lot with all the kids who have had these exact kinds of behavioural problems at primary school. Schools, and by extension the teachers, just don't have the time or resources to give some of these kids the help and attention that they need. A teacher has to choose between spending time with the one incredibly disruptive kid, or teaching the rest of the class, and safeguarding/behaviour management teams are getting smaller or asked to do more all the time.

[captain red dog]

Whether true or not, anyone who has worked in journalism or PR in any form (whether it be music, videogames, politics...) will know this sounds completely plausible, and I think social media has only now made it obvious to the public. Far too much incestuous chumocracy.

Seems to be true. There is footage of Lewis Goodall singing.

[Moggy]

Regarding that kid getting shot and stabbed - what the strawberry float is going on with gooseberry fool like this? Seems to be happening all the time. strawberry floating animals

It's become normalised. It's such a problem and isn't getting the attention it needs. The kids involved are getting younger and younger as well.

Yeah that's the bit that just boggles my mind, I just can't comprehend how a child can do something like that to another child. It's mob mentality in the extreme. When I was 14, the worst a group of kids would do is maybe nick some sweets if they'd been egged on by each other, now it seems they commit horrific murders for apparent slights or disrespect.

I think in general you'd label someone that stabbed and shot an innocent child as a psychopath, but surely all these kids can't be psychopaths? It's just desperate, the absolute strawberry floating state of it.

Are there stats that it is in fact getting worse? I'm sure I heard similar stories of kids getting shot/stabbed by other kids when I was growing up in the 90s.

I can't find anything that shows age of offender/victim, but murder rates are low compared to the past.

Thanks.

I think we need to be very careful about supposing these crimes are getting worse without evidence - it's easy to think things were better back in our day. Not saying you're wrong preezy as i'm also not an expert but recency bias and rolling news surely play a part.

We are all getting older, it's no surprise a few of us are now saying "the youth of today are terrible, it was better in my day!"

Knife crime is definitely on the increase. 25k related crimes in 2013/14 to 49k related crimes in 2019/20. It only drops last year to 41k due to covid. From experience it’s back with a vengeance this year but you will have to wait till next year for the stats.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn04304/

https://benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-statistics/

https://crimestoppers-uk.org/keeping-sa ... -in-detail

Is knife crime on the increase, or is it that changes in legislation and/or police priorities have changed? Is carrying a knife now being recorded more often, where it was more ignored in the past?

From your commons library link:



From that graph, it looks to me like the early 2010s saw a dip, but the graph overall doesn't show today is much different to the last 20 years.

The big problem with FCE is that it is a very specific recording. If you discharge yourself as a lot of stabbing victims, particularly those young and involved in crime do or transferred to a different hospital or care provider then you are not included in the figures.

A finished consultant episode (FCE) is a continuous period of admitted patient care under one consultant within one healthcare provider.

As you say another issue is police recording practices have changed over the years but so have they in the NHS and other bodies. It’s always the case and makes it very difficult to compare records.

All I can do is talk from personal experience and we are definitely dealing with a lot more violence, particularly involving younger males.

I doubt people are discharging themselves at a higher rate now then they were in 2008 or 1998.

Recording practices will change, but I'd be more inclined to trust the NHS figures for this sort of thing. What we care about are injuries/deaths. The NHS can give us a decent picture of that.

The police figures are much harder to get a complete picture over time. New laws will change what is and isn't a crime. A government crackdown will cause figures to spike. Older police who think "well I always carried a penknife, I'm not arresting a kid for it" will have retired. New ways of recording it change the stats.

Personal experience is meaningless when we are talking about a country of almost 70 million people. Personally I think young people today are better than they were 10 years ago. And they are a LOT better than they were in the '90s.

So is your personal experience meaningless or not

I would say in general the younger population are becoming more considerate, polite and aware of various important issues etc. the good kids are better than they were before however I also believe that the pool of idiots has grown. I’m dealing with an ever increasing number of rude, entitled, disruptive kids in larger groups than before and in areas of the town that you wouldn’t previously have seen them. School safeguarding staff that I speak to regularly say this as well. Again this is down to personal experience which is hard to quantify.

My personal experience statement was put there as a direct contrast to yours.

[Tineash]

Whether true or not, anyone who has worked in journalism or PR in any form (whether it be music, videogames, politics...) will know this sounds completely plausible, and I think social media has only now made it obvious to the public. Far too much incestuous chumocracy.

Seems to be true. There is footage of Lewis Goodall singing.

Those lying deceitful gooseberry fools.

[Preezy]

The latest Question Time is a satisfying watch. The audience was recruited 52/48 in favour of Brexit, but the content is 100/0 in opposition to how it has turned out and against the government in general. It is basically an episode of 'Everyone vs Nadhim Zahawi' .

Watching now thanks for the heads up

[Memento Mori]

Whether true or not, anyone who has worked in journalism or PR in any form (whether it be music, videogames, politics...) will know this sounds completely plausible, and I think social media has only now made it obvious to the public. Far too much incestuous chumocracy.

Seems to be true. There is footage of Lewis Goodall singing.

Link?