Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors

[Tomous]

Police investigate Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner

[Moggy]

I'm not sure I can vote for a party that has Wes Streeting involved. Hes disgusting.

This.

I'm obviously going to be hoping the Tories get annihilated. But I'm not sure I can personally vote for Labour with some of the views they are currently putting out there.

[Hexx]

Yeah a lot of Lab's moves recently on Gaza, Green Policies, NHS, Trans issues etc have really made the

"Hold your nose and vote for something better than Tories at bits, not quite as bad at Tory at bits and exactly the same as Tory at bits" much much harder to stomach.

Particularly when it feels like it's being clearly communicated which voters Lab are pandering to/courting and which they're taking for granted.

[Grumpy David]

Starmer: Labour will increase defence spending to 2.5% and boost nuclear deterrent

Sir Keir said: “It’s a way of demonstrating that the Labour Party I lead understands that national security, defence of the country is the number one issue for any government. In fact, that is the long-standing Labour position because of course it was the post-war Labour government that actually helped create and bring about Nato and the nuclear deterrent.”

He is announcing a new “triple lock” commitment, promising that a Labour government after the next election would build at least four new nuclear submarines at Barrow, keep the continuous at-sea deterrent and fund any future upgrades needed to the fleet.

Asked whether the funding needed for nuclear weapons and conventional forces remained a good use of money, Starmer replied: “The nuclear deterrent is expensive, but it’s absolutely vital and needed.

Matching the Conservatives pledge. Quite amusing framing to call it a "triple lock" commitment.

Enabling ghouls like Streeting will forever be the worst political mistake of my life.

Are you normally a Labour voter (or a Labour Party member that voted for Starmer / live in Streeting's constituency) but no longer planning to vote Labour in the next GE?

[Hexx]

Oh look they found the magic money tree but can't afford Sure Start etc

[Cuttooth]

Enabling ghouls like Streeting will forever be the worst political mistake of my life.

Are you normally a Labour voter (or a Labour Party member that voted for Starmer / live in Streeting's constituency) but no longer planning to vote Labour in the next GE?

I voted for Starmer in the leadership election based on a campaign of unity and ten pledges that align with what I want a Labour government to be built on, which he started dropping within the first year of his leadership.

I think I've been pretty transparent over the last two to three years in these threads that I won't be voting for Labour in any election given they have made it clear they no longer want or need my vote and don't intend to implement any of those pledges. And that's fine, they can go after the support of Farage fans and bigots all they like but I'm quite happy to not be a part of that.

[Outrunner]

I can't bring myself to vote for Labour this election. Their lurch to the right has made it impossible. I live in a safe seat so my vote won't matter anyway. I'll always regret voting for Starmer as leader, I'm just glad to be out of the Labour party now.

[Grumpy David]

Enabling ghouls like Streeting will forever be the worst political mistake of my life.

Are you normally a Labour voter (or a Labour Party member that voted for Starmer / live in Streeting's constituency) but no longer planning to vote Labour in the next GE?

I voted for Starmer in the leadership election based on a campaign of unity and ten pledges that align with what I want a Labour government to be built on, which he started dropping within the first year of his leadership.

I think I've been pretty transparent over the last two to three years in these threads that I won't be voting for Labour in any election given they have made it clear they no longer want or need my vote and don't intend to implement any of those pledges. And that's fine, they can go after the support of Farage fans and bigots all they like but I'm quite happy to not be a part of that.

I couldn't remember if you were a member (and also voted for Starmer) but I can see why you'd have buyer's remorse given the pledges. I suppose the argument from Starmer's side would be what good is ideological purity if you can't get into Number 10?

Would you just not bother to vote now?

I don't think Starmer's gone after Farage fans or bigots, he's got Labour to a place where polling shows him at 40%+ of the electorate meanwhile Reform's growth to 15%-ish seems to have largely come from the decline of the Tory share of the vote.

Police investigate Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner

I'm beginning to think this story is similar to Lib Dem MP Chris Huhne and his speeding ticket (his wife claimed to be driving the car). That story remained in the news cycle for months and eventually resulted in a prison sentence for them both.

"It's not the lie that gets you, it's the cover-up".

It does seem like Rayner has either failed to pay Capital Gains Tax or broke electoral law. I also don't see the reason for not publishing the tax advice she received a few weeks ago as that would clear her name and kill the story.

[Moggy]

I'm beginning to think this story is similar to Lib Dem MP Chris Huhne and his speeding ticket (his wife claimed to be driving the car). That story remained in the news cycle for months and eventually resulted in a prison sentence for them both.

"It's not the lie that gets you, it's the cover-up".

It does seem like Rayner has either failed to pay Capital Gains Tax or broke electoral law. I also don't see the reason for not publishing the tax advice she received a few weeks ago as that would clear her name and kill the story.

Or it's "beergate" v2 and the Mail are desperately trying to find a way of smearing one of the Labour front branch.

[Outrunner]

I can see why you'd have buyer's remorse given the pledges. I suppose the argument from Starmer's side would be what good is ideological purity if you can't get into Number 10?

Would you just not bother to vote now?

On the flip side of that, aside from ousting the Tories (obviously the main endgame) what's the point in being in Number 10 if you don't bring meaningful change? Starmer was already my compromise vote. I get that the left of the party weren't necessarily cutting through to the electorate and I was willing to meet the centrist/right of the party half-way. But throwing out the pledges, purging the left, rowing back on anything remotely radical, Wes Streeting being involved with the NHS, their stance on Palestine, Mandelson's comments on workers rights (appeasing the capitalists) it just feels like Labour barely line up with my politics at all. I may vote Green if they stand in my area but otherwise either won't vote or spoil my ballot. The sooner we get PR the sooner I can vote for a left wing party and not this "Third Way" party Labour are morphing back into. I'd hoped under Starmer we might move to PR can't bring myself to believe he'll back it, especially if its a landslide victory

[Tomous]

I'm beginning to think this story is similar to Lib Dem MP Chris Huhne and his speeding ticket (his wife claimed to be driving the car). That story remained in the news cycle for months and eventually resulted in a prison sentence for them both.

"It's not the lie that gets you, it's the cover-up".

It does seem like Rayner has either failed to pay Capital Gains Tax or broke electoral law. I also don't see the reason for not publishing the tax advice she received a few weeks ago as that would clear her name and kill the story.

Or it's "beergate" v2 and the Mail are desperately trying to find a way of smearing one of the Labour front branch.

Yep. It's beergate v2

[Moggy]

Yep. It's beergate v2

Although if she did somehow dodge a couple of grand in tax, then we should all be grateful to the Mail and the Tories that have worked tirelessly to expose this heinous crime. And I look forward to them turning their attention on the tax affairs of all MPs and media owners.

[Grumpy David]

I'm beginning to think this story is similar to Lib Dem MP Chris Huhne and his speeding ticket (his wife claimed to be driving the car). That story remained in the news cycle for months and eventually resulted in a prison sentence for them both.

"It's not the lie that gets you, it's the cover-up".

It does seem like Rayner has either failed to pay Capital Gains Tax or broke electoral law. I also don't see the reason for not publishing the tax advice she received a few weeks ago as that would clear her name and kill the story.

Or it's "beergate" v2 and the Mail are desperately trying to find a way of smearing one of the Labour front branch.

Possibly but given how long this story has gone on for - why doesn't Rayner release the tax advice she got a few weeks ago? If it proves her innocent then choosing to withhold it is bizarre.

She probably does owe a small amount of CGT on her Right To Buy Home and I wouldn't expect her to have known that in 2015 when she sold the home so I don't think it was deliberate tax evasion. If it does turn out to be an overdue tax bill it would have been a lot less of a headache to have nipped it in the bud months ago.

I can see why you'd have buyer's remorse given the pledges. I suppose the argument from Starmer's side would be what good is ideological purity if you can't get into Number 10?

Would you just not bother to vote now?

On the flip side of that, aside from ousting the Tories (obviously the main endgame) what's the point in being in Number 10 if you don't bring meaningful change? Starmer was already my compromise vote. I get that the left of the party weren't necessarily cutting through to the electorate and I was willing to meet the centrist/right of the party half-way. But throwing out the pledges, purging the left, rowing back on anything remotely radical, Wes Streeting being involved with the NHS, their stance on Palestine, Mandelson's comments on workers rights (appeasing the capitalists) it just feels like Labour barely line up with my politics at all. I may vote Green if they stand in my area but otherwise either won't vote or spoil my ballot. The sooner we get PR the sooner I can vote for a left wing party and not this "Third Way" party Labour are morphing back into. I'd hoped under Starmer we might move to PR can't bring myself to believe he'll back it, especially if its a landslide victory

Starmer's ruled out PR too I think? The only way I can see that coming about is with Labour being reliant on the Lib Dems and/or the SNP to form a government.

Is there any optimism to be had with thinking Starmer's swing to the centre ground of politics is for the purpose of winning but once in power he'll lean more to the left?

I'm really interested to see what the Labour manifesto looks like, they're going to have a massive majority in parliament but a financial situation that makes it very challenging to increase spending. Focusing on something like planning reform and leasehold reform would be the kind of low cost policy I expect Labour will pursue.

[DML]

Labour shouldn't need to pander right now, and they do. The right wing never do the same.

[Tineash]

I think it's very healthy for democracy that the police can be pressured into spurious investigations of the government-media-complex's enemies, as many times and as often as is needed. I eagerly look forward to the evidence tent popping up in Angela Rayner's front garden.

[Van Foster]

Farage fans and bigots

One and the same, really.

[Moggy]

Farage fans and bigots

One and the same, really.

Not true, some people just have teratophilia.

[Outrunner]

Is there any optimism to be had with thinking Starmer's swing to the centre ground of politics is for the purpose of winning but once in power he'll lean more to the left?

Not really. I can't think of any elections where centrist parties have campaigned in a centrist platform only to shift to the left once they're in power. I'm happy to be corrected on this though. The right of the party are in control now, most of their funding is from business now so they'll be pandering to corporate interests. I have no confidence that we'll see any significant move to the left once in power.

[Moggy]

Is there any optimism to be had with thinking Starmer's swing to the centre ground of politics is for the purpose of winning but once in power he'll lean more to the left?

Not really. I can't think of any elections where centrist parties have campaigned in a centrist platform only to shift to the left once they're in power. I'm happy to be corrected on this though. The right of the party are in control now, most of their funding is from business now so they'll be pandering to corporate interests. I have no confidence that we'll see any significant move to the left once in power.

You're looking at close to 50 years since Labour last won on a left wing platform.

Blair's Labour won on a centrist platform and I guess it's a matter of opinion on whether they shifted left after the '97 election or if they stayed centrist. Right wingers will tell you they were crazy leftists, left wingers will tell you they were basically the same as Thatcher.

I see Starmer as being roughly the same. He'll campaign on a centrist platform, win a big victory and I have no doubt it'll be better than the last 14 years of Tory rule.

But people have short memories and Starmer will never be brave enough to make big/quick changes that will substantially improve ordinary people's lives. So it'll all seem very disappointing and we'll eventually (probably the 2034 election) end up with another Tory governments who'll drag the country down even further.

[Carlos]

I can't bring myself to vote for Labour this election. Their lurch to the right has made it impossible. I live in a safe seat so my vote won't matter anyway. I'll always regret voting for Starmer as leader, I'm just glad to be out of the Labour party now.

It’s an unfortunate sacrifice to get the red wall back. I would have enjoyed Corbyn as PM but his radical policies fell flat with a lot of voters, voters Labour needs to get back if they actually want to win.

Starmers policy of the various left factions either getting on board or getting off was the right one. If they get a landslide they can actually take their foot off a little bit and the opposition can do nothing about it.