US Politics - Trump cancels summit having to do with North Korea

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Peter Crisp » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:54 pm

A lot of Conservatives tend to see the world in a purely personal finance way.
The more money they themselves have the better and screw the government as they always spend it badly and they honestly believe all government money is spent badly despite being 100% behind the military which is government funded so in theory should be strawberry floating terrible.
They tend to see all benefits going to people as a form of slavery (I've had arguments where they claim all NHS staff are slaves for example despite them being able to quit whenever they like which I'm fairly sure real slaves weren't able to along with not being paid) and that people will always vote for whoever gives them the most money without seeing the irony that they vote for exactly that by voting for tax and spending cuts.

The US political situation is completely divided for some conservatives who claim liberalism is a mental disorder and that only conservatives use logic which makes trying to have a rational argument with them rather tough and ultimately pointless as no matter how many times they lose an argument they will never change and the climate debate is a perfect example. They can have 300 scientists say climate change is caused by man and here's a possible solution but they will find 1 or 2 scientists who disagree and agree with them and they go with the idea that the 300 are wrong and part of a liberal plot as scientists are all just in it for the money and ladies (Given the choice between Brad Pitt and a scientist the ladies always flock to the scientists) and the 2 conservative scientists are obviously right.

It's why I finally left the USpolitics forum in despair after being told by many on here to do so but I felt I could at least try and make them see things slightly differently but it's just a losing battle and was just depressing. It's why US debates are so pointless as nobody wants an actual debate they just want politicians who agree with them and call all others such things as Republicans in Name Only (Rino's) and denounce them as subhuman scum.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by captain red dog » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:48 pm

The US political system is so badly broken its unbelievable really. There choices are between one party which is the equivalent of the DUP or another which aligns quite well to the current Tories. They have an illusion of choice.

The UK isn't much better, we have basically had a choice between Coke or Diet Coke for the last 20 years. At least with Corbyn in, we kind of have Pepsi on the market.

EDIT: I'd laugh at anyone using the term Rino, the Republicans currently have a Rino in the Whitehouse.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Moggy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:18 pm

captain red dog wrote:The UK isn't much better, we have basically had a choice between Coke or Diet Coke for the last 20 years. At least with Corbyn in, we kind of have Pepsi on the market.


Corbyn’s more like a bottle of Panda Pops that’s been left open for a week and has gone all flat.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Peter Crisp » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:26 pm

I would call myself a liberal but I think Corbyn is a bit much.
For instance I don't think re-nationalising the railways is the way to go what we need is much more ability to strip failing companies of contracts without having to pay them huge sums for dumping them. If we can have a system where companies can come in and run things and have some competition for contracts and fear that poor service has consequences we can get a good service.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Errkal » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:29 pm

Don't compare corbyn to pepsi, pepsi is nice corbyn is a banana split.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Saint of Killers » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:51 am

twitter.com/OrrinHatch/status/945375067927490560



The Salt Lake Tribune named Hatch their “Utahn of the Year,” an honor the paper said is given to an impactful Utahn, whether their contributions were “for good or for ill.”

The editorial said that Hatch was given the designation based on “his utter lack of integrity that rises from his unquenchable thirst for power,” and told the longtime senator to “call it a career.”

“It would be good for Utah if Hatch, having finally caught the Great White Whale of tax reform, were to call it a career,” the piece read. “If he doesn’t, the voters should end it for him.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3664 ... er-lack-of

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by KK » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:19 pm

Couldn’t help but listen to Prince Harry, plant whisperer Prince Charles (and Obama) this morning on the radio and think it was blindingly obvious (if it wasn’t before) that this is yet another thing the UK establishment doesn’t have in common with Donald Trump. Even Gove has now gone all-in with the Climate. Harry and Diana were also big on charity work, something else the President doesn’t give two gooseberry fools about.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Trump never meets the Queen at this rate.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by KK » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:33 pm

Look at the state of this:



Taken from Christmas Day this year in LA.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Squinty » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:55 pm

Something is seriously going wrong there.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Preezy » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:56 pm

Yikes

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Errkal
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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Errkal » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:03 pm

Most powerful country and utter gooseberry fool handles in charge, with a people convinced helping people is wrong because they sort their own gooseberry fool.

strawberry floating ridiculous.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Lagamorph » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:13 pm

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:Most powerful country and utter gooseberry fool handles in charge, with a people convinced helping people is wrong because they sort their own gooseberry fool.

strawberry floating ridiculous.

To be fair, America's homeless problem long pre-dates the Trump administration.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Peter Crisp » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:16 pm

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:Most powerful country and utter gooseberry fool handles in charge, with a people convinced helping people is wrong because they sort their own gooseberry fool.

strawberry floating ridiculous.


Yep, a huge majority of US Conservatives claim to be Christians but they honestly couldn't give a gooseberry fool about the poor.

A perfect example is when they tried to argue that the proclamation on the Statue of Liberty which says "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddled masses yearning to be free" should not be taken as anything to do with how the US is seen by the world.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... 0084adcd0e

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by TigaSefi » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:26 pm

Tons of homeslessness in LA in the 90’s. Not a new thing.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by KK » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:54 pm

It’s gone up massively since 2016 though - according to an LA Homeless Services report in January there were 57,794 homeless in LA, up over 10,000 in a year (549,928 across the USA).

Not that we’ve got anything to be proud of either, the UK is at a quarter of a million.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Parksey » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:54 pm

LA has Skid Row, right? Quite a famous homeless district. Same with San Francisco and the Tenderloin. Having the homeless in their own "district" just helps normalise it and, conveniently, helps those of us lucky to be well off to both physically and mentally separate ourselves from the problem. A lot easier just to avoid areas like Skid Row, which is not a place you want to visit anyway, rather than deal with social problems that reduce people to living in such conditions.

The other big problem in America is that their whole society is based around a meritocracy. In the UK, we are still rooted in the idea of aristocracy - if someone has money, we often think they are from money. That wealth and earning potential is based as much on who your parents as it is on qualifications and skills. Or at the very least, we are still very much a class-based society.

In America, there's the viewpoint that anyone can be rich if they just work hard enough. The American Dream. Unfortunately, this tends to paint the poor in a different way. If you're poor, then you've failed in some way. You've not worked hard enough or you've made bad decisions. It's why quite often, Presidential candidates are big businessmen and very wealthy. It's not like Cameron here, where it's his ancestry and privileged upbringing and something politicians try to keep quiet. Over there, they say how much they make or how successful their companies are. Being rich is desirable, being successful is a sign of how hard working and brilliant you.

Then there's the complete lack of a welfare system. Again, if you need to rely on welfare, there's a sense that you've failed in some way. Obviously some people have that viewpoint over here, but in America even more so. You're seen as relying on handouts, on needing the state's help just to get to where "normal" people are without help. Seen as taking from the system and not giving back. Even with healthcare, you're seen as not paying your way and contributing to increased costs for others.

There's almost a sense in America that if you're rich, you deserve to me. With Trump, it's not because he inherited a fortune from his father and had every advantage in life, it's because he worked hard and was good at what he did. Conversely, in America if you're poor, you also deserve to be. They don't deserve compassion as they are slackers, drug addicts, criminals, the poorly educated, immigrants etc.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Peter Crisp » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:40 pm

Americans also don't seem to have a any sense of fair play in business either. Trump has got where he is by screwing people over left, right and centre and he's lauded for it as a business genius. US culture just seems to be that they think people can always get money if they try and anyone who doesn't is obviously just lazy.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Alvin Flummux » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:22 am

This old article may shed some light. Some excerpts:

A Conservative Explains Why Right-Wingers Have No Compassion
A former Republican Senate Congressional staffer on why right-wingers think people without insurance deserve to die.

...

Right-wingers have occasioned much recent comment. Their behavior in the Republican debates has caused even jaded observers to react like an Oxford don stumbling upon a tribe of headhunting cannibals. In those debates where the moderators did not enforce decorum, these right-wingers, the Republican base, behaved with a single lack of dignity. For a group that displays its supposed pro-life credentials like a neon sign, the biggest applause lines resulted from their hearing about executions or the prospect of someone dying without health insurance.

Who are these people and what motivates them? To answer, one must leave the field of conventional political theory and enter the realm of psychopathology. Three books may serve as field guides to the farther shores of American politics and the netherworld of the true believer.

...

According to the author, the inner life of fundamentalist true believers is the farthest thing from that of a stuffily proper Goody Two Shoes. They seem tormented by demons that those in the reality-based community scarcely experience. That may explain their extraordinary latitude in absolving their political and ecclesiastical heroes of their sins: while most of us might regard George W. Bush as a dry drunk resentful of his father, Newt Gingrich as a sociopathic serial adulterer and Ted Haggard as a pathetic specimen in terminal denial, their followers on the right apparently believe that the greater the sin, the more impressive the salvation - so long as the magic words are uttered and the penitent sinner is washed in the Blood of the Lamb. This explains why people like Gingrich can attend "values voter" forums and both he and the audience manage to keep straight faces. Far from being a purpose-driven life, the existence of many true believers is a crisis-driven life that seeks release, as Blumenthal asserts, in an "escape from freedom."

An observer of the right-wing phenomenon must explain the paradox of followers who would escape from freedom even as they incessantly invoke the word freedom as if it were a mantra. But freedom so defined does not mean ordinary civil liberties like the prohibition of illegal government search and seizure, the right of due process, or the right not to be tortured. The hard right has never protested the de facto abrogation of much of the Bill of Rights during the last decade. In the right-wing id, freedom is the emotional release that a hostile and psychologically repressed person feels when he is finally able to lash out at the objects of his resentment. Freedom is his prerogative to rid himself of people who are different, or who unsettle him. Freedom is merging into a like-minded herd. Right-wing alchemy transforms freedom into authoritarianism.

Robert Altemeyer, a Canadian psychologist, has done extensive testing to isolate and describe the traits of the authoritarian personality. His results are distilled in his book "The Authoritarians." He describes religious fundamentalists, the core of the right-wing Republican base, as follows:

They are highly submissive to established authority, aggressive in the name of that authority and conventional to the point of insisting everyone should behave as their authorities decide. They are fearful and self-righteous and have a lot of hostility in them that they readily direct toward various out-groups. They are easily incited, easily led, rather un-inclined to think for themselves, largely impervious to facts and reason and rely instead on social support to maintain their beliefs. They bring strong loyalty to their in-groups, have thick-walled, highly compartmentalized minds, use a lot of double standards in their judgments, are surprisingly unprincipled at times and are often hypocrites.


There are tens of millions of Americans who, although personally lacking the self-confidence, ambition and leadership qualities of authoritarian dominators like Gingrich or Sarah Palin, nevertheless empower the latter to achieve their goals while finding psychological fulfillment in subordination to a cause. Altemeyer describes these persons as authoritarian followers. They are socially rigid, highly conventional and strongly intolerant personalities, who, absent any self-directed goals, seek achievement and satisfaction by losing themselves in a movement greater than themselves. One finds them overrepresented in reactionary political movements, fundamentalist sects and leader cults like scientology. They are the people who responded on cue when Bush's press secretary said after the 9/11 attacks that people had better "watch what they say;" or who approved of illegal surveillance because "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear;" or who, after months of news stories saying that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, nevertheless believed the weapons were found. Altemeyer said:

Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population is so right-wing authoritarian, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds. They would march America into a dictatorship and probably feel that things had improved as a result.... And they are so submissive to their leaders that they will believe and do virtually anything they are told. They are not going to let up and they are not going away.


Twenty to 25 percent is no majority, but enough to swing an election, especially since the authoritarian follower is more easily organized than the rest of the population. As for Altemeyer's warning that such personality types "are not going away," the rise of the Tea Party after 2008 showed that he was a better prognosticator than Max Blumenthal, who thought the radical takeover of the GOP during the Bush presidency had "shattered the party."


https://www.alternet.org/story/154194/a ... compassion

:dread:

There really is no reasoning with some people...

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by Lex-Man » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:03 am

Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:It’s gone up massively since 2016 though - according to an LA Homeless Services report in January there were 57,794 homeless in LA, up over 10,000 in a year (549,928 across the USA).

Not that we’ve got anything to be proud of either, the UK is at a quarter of a million.


If that's true then we're way worse. Scale our population to the US's and we'd have over a million homeless people.

I refuse to believe it's worse here though. The US is a strawberry floating dump.


The trick is to work out if their measuring like for like
In The UK we measure people who sofa surf full time as homeless. Although I don't think we actually keep official figures on homelessness.

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PostRe: US Politics - UN rejects Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
by KK » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:54 am

Roy Moore sues to try to stop Alabama from naming Doug Jones winner of U.S. Senate seat

Roy Moore is going to court to try to stop Alabama from certifying Democrat Doug Jones as the winner of the U.S. Senate race.

Moore filed a lawsuit Wednesday evening in Montgomery Circuit Court. The filing occurred about 14 hours ahead of Thursday's meeting of a state canvassing board to officially declare Jones the winner of the Dec. 12 special election.

Jones defeated Moore by about 20,000 votes.

Moore's attorney wrote in the lawsuit that he believed there were irregularities and said there should be a fraud investigation and eventually a new election.

"This is not a Republican or Democrat issue as election integrity should matter to everyone," Moore said in a statement released Wednesday announcing the complaint.

Moore hasn't conceded the race, CBS Birmingham affiliate WIAT-TV points out, adding that he has said he wants to wait until military and provisional ballots are counted. Even President Trump, who supported Moore, has said Moore should concede.

Moore has sent several fundraising emails to supporters asking for donations to investigate claims of voter fraud.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/roy-moore- ... nate-seat/

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