Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by aayl1 » Fri May 15, 2020 7:32 pm

Meh, I could see it as an EDGE 7 tbh. I'd probably give it an 8, but it does have some big flaws.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Lagamorph » Sat May 16, 2020 9:31 am

Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by aayl1 » Sat May 16, 2020 10:09 am

Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?


Nope you can't get them to behave in certain ways which is really frustrating sometimes. You pretty much have to be constantly switching to make sure they're building up ATB.

My flatmate's playing through FF12 right now and that has a super in depth AI teammate system. Why didn't they bring that over!?

Another big oversight which I think contributes to the edge 7.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Fade » Sat May 16, 2020 3:40 pm

aayl1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?


Nope you can't get them to behave in certain ways which is really frustrating sometimes. You pretty much have to be constantly switching to make sure they're building up ATB.

My flatmate's playing through FF12 right now and that has a super in depth AI teammate system. Why didn't they bring that over!?

Another big oversight which I think contributes to the edge 7.

Wow, okay, well presumably because the battle system is modelled after the battle system from the original game and the focus of it is switching between the different characters, not setting two characters to auto and then only controlling cloud.

The game is very heavily balanced and designed around character switching. It's not FF12 and it's not trying to be, it's far more engaging than that game.

Also, to say enemy casting can't be interrupted is kind of hilarious, lots of bosses have moves that you are meant to knock them out of. And most regular enemies will get knocked out of whatever attack they're doing if you hit them with their weakness. Hell the soldiers even get juggled around by your sword.

What did I just read :fp:

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Lagamorph » Sat May 16, 2020 3:52 pm

Fade wrote:
aayl1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?


Nope you can't get them to behave in certain ways which is really frustrating sometimes. You pretty much have to be constantly switching to make sure they're building up ATB.

My flatmate's playing through FF12 right now and that has a super in depth AI teammate system. Why didn't they bring that over!?

Another big oversight which I think contributes to the edge 7.

Wow, okay, well presumably because the battle system is modelled after the battle system from the original game and the focus of it is switching between the different characters, not setting two characters to auto and then only controlling cloud.

The game is very heavily balanced and designed around character switching. It's not FF12 and it's not trying to be, it's far more engaging than that game.

Also, to say enemy casting can't be interrupted is kind of hilarious, lots of bosses have moves that you are meant to knock them out of. And most regular enemies will get knocked out of whatever attack they're doing if you hit them with their weakness. Hell the soldiers even get juggled around by your sword.

What did I just read :fp:

Nah, I've had multiple instances of an enemy (just regular, it bosses) casting a spell like Fira at me, and no matter how much I wail on them with normal/strong attacks it doesn't interrupt them.
On the other hand I start casting Fira and literally any attack will interrupt me and stop the spell. Oh but I still lose the MP since it gets consumed immediately rather than at the point of the spell actually being cast.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Fade » Sat May 16, 2020 5:05 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Fade wrote:
aayl1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?


Nope you can't get them to behave in certain ways which is really frustrating sometimes. You pretty much have to be constantly switching to make sure they're building up ATB.

My flatmate's playing through FF12 right now and that has a super in depth AI teammate system. Why didn't they bring that over!?

Another big oversight which I think contributes to the edge 7.

Wow, okay, well presumably because the battle system is modelled after the battle system from the original game and the focus of it is switching between the different characters, not setting two characters to auto and then only controlling cloud.

The game is very heavily balanced and designed around character switching. It's not FF12 and it's not trying to be, it's far more engaging than that game.

Also, to say enemy casting can't be interrupted is kind of hilarious, lots of bosses have moves that you are meant to knock them out of. And most regular enemies will get knocked out of whatever attack they're doing if you hit them with their weakness. Hell the soldiers even get juggled around by your sword.

What did I just read :fp:

Nah, I've had multiple instances of an enemy (just regular, it bosses) casting a spell like Fira at me, and no matter how much I wail on them with normal/strong attacks it doesn't interrupt them.
On the other hand I start casting Fira and literally any attack will interrupt me and stop the spell. Oh but I still lose the MP since it gets consumed immediately rather than at the point of the spell actually being cast.

Yeah, normal attacks don't interrupt most enemies, I did say you have to exploit their weaknesses.

Most enemies flop around for a bit, then do a really telegraphed attack, the name of which is shown on the screen before it comes out, most of which you can dodge or block.

Player characters can attack infinitely on the other hand, so if you could interrupt most enemies with standard attacks I think the game would probably play a bit like the Lego games :lol: it's not a hack and slash, you're meant to think about what you're doing.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by CuriousOyster » Sat May 16, 2020 5:18 pm

Some lovely ending spoilers out in the open in last few pages, thank you.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Lagamorph » Sat May 16, 2020 5:35 pm

Fade wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Fade wrote:
aayl1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?


Nope you can't get them to behave in certain ways which is really frustrating sometimes. You pretty much have to be constantly switching to make sure they're building up ATB.

My flatmate's playing through FF12 right now and that has a super in depth AI teammate system. Why didn't they bring that over!?

Another big oversight which I think contributes to the edge 7.

Wow, okay, well presumably because the battle system is modelled after the battle system from the original game and the focus of it is switching between the different characters, not setting two characters to auto and then only controlling cloud.

The game is very heavily balanced and designed around character switching. It's not FF12 and it's not trying to be, it's far more engaging than that game.

Also, to say enemy casting can't be interrupted is kind of hilarious, lots of bosses have moves that you are meant to knock them out of. And most regular enemies will get knocked out of whatever attack they're doing if you hit them with their weakness. Hell the soldiers even get juggled around by your sword.

What did I just read :fp:

Nah, I've had multiple instances of an enemy (just regular, it bosses) casting a spell like Fira at me, and no matter how much I wail on them with normal/strong attacks it doesn't interrupt them.
On the other hand I start casting Fira and literally any attack will interrupt me and stop the spell. Oh but I still lose the MP since it gets consumed immediately rather than at the point of the spell actually being cast.

Yeah, normal attacks don't interrupt most enemies, I did say you have to exploit their weaknesses.

Most enemies flop around for a bit, then do a really telegraphed attack, the name of which is shown on the screen before it comes out, most of which you can dodge or block.

Player characters can attack infinitely on the other hand, so if you could interrupt most enemies with standard attacks I think the game would probably play a bit like the Lego games :lol: it's not a hack and slash, you're meant to think about what you're doing.

Thing is exploiting their weakness will usually mean "Casting a spell", but by the time you can do that it's already too late since their attack will almost certainly be launched before you can finish casting.

Player characters can attack infinitely, but I wouldn't really say it's very different for enemies. If they have some ATB equivalent then their bars are much shorter and fill much faster if my experience is anything to go by.

It's not....bad exactly, it's just there are little things that could be done to make it better, eg MP not being consumed until you actually cast a spell rather than at the start of the animation, enemy spells being interruptable without needing to hit them with a spell of your own (Even if it's just something like you need to hit them with an Ability like Braver rather than being interrupted by normal attacks), AI characters being a bit more aggressive with normal attacks so that their ATB actually builds at a slightly more reasonable rate without the need for constant switching and direct control.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Met » Sun May 17, 2020 7:32 am

Lagamorph wrote:It's not....bad exactly, it's just there are little things that could be done to make it better, eg MP not being consumed until you actually cast a spell rather than at the start of the animation


But then there'd be no opportunity cost and no risk to doing it at all. It would make magic even more hilariously overpowered than it already is.

Lagamorph wrote:enemy spells being interruptable without needing to hit them with a spell of your own (Even if it's just something like you need to hit them with an Ability like Braver rather than being interrupted by normal attacks)


This is already the case. Even Bahamut gets flinched out of attacks like a bitch. Tifa, as an example, can flinch most things with Rise and Fall/Omnistrike which should be up at all times if you don't want to sit on ATB for it.

Lagamorph wrote:AI characters being a bit more aggressive with normal attacks so that their ATB actually builds at a slightly more reasonable rate without the need for constant switching and direct control.


While that's contrary to the system they were going for where you're supposed to play as everyone in the party, I do somewhat agree there could be something done to improve AI. Not Gambits because that's way too much for this game, but setting to Offensive/Defensive at least would be nice. The main problem I found was the AI just not being able to handle boss mechanics. They were fine for some of them, but then you get things like Hellhouse or Swordipede where on Hard they just can't deal with charges and the like.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Fade » Sun May 17, 2020 10:27 am

Lagamorph wrote:
Fade wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Fade wrote:
aayl1 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.
In particular it's annoying that the AI is given a huge advantage over the player in that player spell/ability casting is interrupted by pretty much any hit, but enemy casting isn't.

It also doesn't help that the AI party characters do virtually nothing without direct control, so their ATB almost doesn't build at all.
Can you really not set any kind of tactics or anything for them to at least be a bit more aggressive?


Nope you can't get them to behave in certain ways which is really frustrating sometimes. You pretty much have to be constantly switching to make sure they're building up ATB.

My flatmate's playing through FF12 right now and that has a super in depth AI teammate system. Why didn't they bring that over!?

Another big oversight which I think contributes to the edge 7.

Wow, okay, well presumably because the battle system is modelled after the battle system from the original game and the focus of it is switching between the different characters, not setting two characters to auto and then only controlling cloud.

The game is very heavily balanced and designed around character switching. It's not FF12 and it's not trying to be, it's far more engaging than that game.

Also, to say enemy casting can't be interrupted is kind of hilarious, lots of bosses have moves that you are meant to knock them out of. And most regular enemies will get knocked out of whatever attack they're doing if you hit them with their weakness. Hell the soldiers even get juggled around by your sword.

What did I just read :fp:

Nah, I've had multiple instances of an enemy (just regular, it bosses) casting a spell like Fira at me, and no matter how much I wail on them with normal/strong attacks it doesn't interrupt them.
On the other hand I start casting Fira and literally any attack will interrupt me and stop the spell. Oh but I still lose the MP since it gets consumed immediately rather than at the point of the spell actually being cast.

Yeah, normal attacks don't interrupt most enemies, I did say you have to exploit their weaknesses.

Most enemies flop around for a bit, then do a really telegraphed attack, the name of which is shown on the screen before it comes out, most of which you can dodge or block.

Player characters can attack infinitely on the other hand, so if you could interrupt most enemies with standard attacks I think the game would probably play a bit like the Lego games :lol: it's not a hack and slash, you're meant to think about what you're doing.

Thing is exploiting their weakness will usually mean "Casting a spell", but by the time you can do that it's already too late since their attack will almost certainly be launched before you can finish casting.

Player characters can attack infinitely, but I wouldn't really say it's very different for enemies. If they have some ATB equivalent then their bars are much shorter and fill much faster if my experience is anything to go by.

It's not....bad exactly, it's just there are little things that could be done to make it better, eg MP not being consumed until you actually cast a spell rather than at the start of the animation, enemy spells being interruptable without needing to hit them with a spell of your own (Even if it's just something like you need to hit them with an Ability like Braver rather than being interrupted by normal attacks), AI characters being a bit more aggressive with normal attacks so that their ATB actually builds at a slightly more reasonable rate without the need for constant switching and direct control.

I mean, if you use the weak version of spells they come out in about a second, I've never had a problem getting those out, just make sure you're not trying to cast it with a character who the enemy is aiming at. Enemies usually target who you are controlling so the best thing to do is draw agro with one character, then cast with another.

But the game is very specifically designed around switching to other characters to build their ATB. There are certain materia that help you build ATB on non active characters but obviously they come at the cost of a materia slot.

Fair enough if you don't like the switching aspect but I think the changes you are suggesting would make the game less tactical and more dull. There's a clip of a streamer playing that perfectly exemplifies how cool the switching can be, I'll try and find it.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Fade » Sun May 17, 2020 10:37 am



https://clips.twitch.tv/AggressivePlainUdonYouWHY

Not sure why it wont embed but oh well

Last edited by Fade on Sun May 17, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by OldSoulCyborg » Sun May 17, 2020 12:21 pm

Fade wrote:Not sure why it wont embed but oh well


You need to use the twitchclip tag for clips:

Code: Select all

[twitchclip]https://clips.twitch.tv/AggressivePlainUdonYouWHY[/twitchclip]

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Damian » Sun May 17, 2020 2:02 pm

Lagamorph wrote:Whilst I'm enjoying this, the battle system is definitely very.....cheesy.

There was a certain "otherness" about the original that is somewhat lost when one of the characters says "It's my time to shine!"

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Fade » Sun May 17, 2020 2:40 pm

OldSoulCyborg wrote:
Fade wrote:Not sure why it wont embed but oh well


You need to use the twitchclip tag for clips:

Code: Select all

[twitchclip]https://clips.twitch.tv/AggressivePlainUdonYouWHY[/twitchclip]

Cheers

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Cheeky Devlin » Sun May 17, 2020 4:15 pm

That clip just made me want to re-install it and start again. :wub:

I'm happy that it all seemed to click for me. 2020 has been phenomenal for games so far. Doom, Half-Life, AC and FFVIIR have all been top tier experiences.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Jenuall » Tue May 19, 2020 4:29 pm

Think I'm on the penultimate chapter now, just at the rooftop battle with Rufus and his pooch. This section of the game has been fantastic, the Jenova boss fight was absolutely brilliant! :toot:

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Lagamorph » Tue May 19, 2020 5:50 pm

I just don't understand the logic of the pull up mini game.
You can't go any faster than it will let you, yet it just barely let's you go fast enough to keep up with the CPU.
Even when the CPU makes a mistake it can catch up incredibly quickly so is being allowed to go faster than the player?

Even at the medium level, one mistake and it's impossible to win, and every mistake comes from me pressing the button a split second too fast rather than too late.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Jenuall » Tue May 19, 2020 6:05 pm

I didn't find it too unfair, but you can't really get away with making a mistake.

I was quite pleased when I won on the last round:



:datass:

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Lagamorph » Tue May 19, 2020 6:08 pm

Jenuall wrote:I didn't find it too unfair, but you can't really get away with making a mistake.

I was quite pleased when I won on the last round:



:datass:

At the Pro level the CPU absolutely accelerates faster than the player is actually allowed to.

It wouldn't be so bad if there was just a retry option rather than having to sit through a loading screen back to the gym then having to challenge it again.

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PostRe: Final Fantasy VII Remake (PS4) | Demo - Out Now
by Jenuall » Tue May 19, 2020 6:10 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Jenuall wrote:I didn't find it too unfair, but you can't really get away with making a mistake.

I was quite pleased when I won on the last round:



:datass:

At the Pro level the CPU absolutely accelerates faster than the player is actually allowed to.

That is the Pro level, you just need to not make a mistake which isn't too hard once you get the timing.

With you on the slow restart though, everything is slow in this game and this is one of the areas where it really hurts!

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