Far Cry 5

Photek wrote:

PES Fan wrote:

Photek wrote:I’m....agreeing with Hime...??!!

Yeah I’d put AC Origins on a par with BOTW tbh.

I’d put both of them miles ahead of Far Cry 4 though.

Have you played BOTW?

I have BOTW on Wii U and Switch.

I've just started Origins and though it is undeniably gorgeous it's the same old same old: your interaction with the world is limited to scanning things and killing things. BoTW does so much more than that. I'm 50 hours in and the game is still finding ways to surprise and delight. After 2 hours with Origins, I feel I've seen everything it has to offer, and the rest of the game will consist of moving through the rote plot and upgrading my ability to kill.

Although I was messing with smurphy he was right. Comparing 99% of Open World games to BoTW is pointless.

Anyway, on the subject of Far Cry. Loved 1, was frustrated yet surprised by 2, thought 3 was interesting and played about 5 hours of 4 before becoming bored. This looks to be more of the same.

Tafdolphin wrote:

Photek wrote:

PES Fan wrote:

Photek wrote:I’m....agreeing with Hime...??!!

Yeah I’d put AC Origins on a par with BOTW tbh.

I’d put both of them miles ahead of Far Cry 4 though.

Have you played BOTW?

I have BOTW on Wii U and Switch.

I've just started Origins and though it is undeniably gorgeous it's the same old same old: your interaction with the world is limited to scanning things and killing things. BoTW does so much more than that. I'm 50 hours in and the game is still finding ways to surprise and delight. After 2 hours with Origins, I feel I've seen everything it has to offer, and the rest of the game will consist of moving through the rote plot and upgrading my ability to kill.

Although I was messing with smurphy he was right. Comparing 99% of Open World games to BoTW is pointless.

Anyway, on the subject of Far Cry. Loved 1, was frustrated yet surprised by 2, thought 3 was interesting and played about 5 hours of 4 before becoming bored. This looks to be more of the same.

Rock circles and baloon popping?

Check out some of the question marks and side missions. Some genuinely interesting and creative stuff.

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Photek wrote:

PES Fan wrote:

Photek wrote:I’m....agreeing with Hime...??!!

Yeah I’d put AC Origins on a par with BOTW tbh.

I’d put both of them miles ahead of Far Cry 4 though.

Have you played BOTW?

I have BOTW on Wii U and Switch.

I've just started Origins and though it is undeniably gorgeous it's the same old same old: your interaction with the world is limited to scanning things and killing things. BoTW does so much more than that. I'm 50 hours in and the game is still finding ways to surprise and delight. After 2 hours with Origins, I feel I've seen everything it has to offer, and the rest of the game will consist of moving through the rote plot and upgrading my ability to kill.

Although I was messing with smurphy he was right. Comparing 99% of Open World games to BoTW is pointless.

Anyway, on the subject of Far Cry. Loved 1, was frustrated yet surprised by 2, thought 3 was interesting and played about 5 hours of 4 before becoming bored. This looks to be more of the same.

Rock circles and baloon popping?

Check out some of the question marks and side missions. Some genuinely interesting and creative stuff.

I was just reading a piece on Waypoint about FC5 and it nailed a fundamental difference between BoTW and other open world games, namely that the former is an "organic, curiosity driven exploration" experience, rather than being about wandering around a map towards, as you say, big white question marks.

The Ubisoft method is a giant check list unveiled after climbing a tower. It is a 'go here kill that' based structure that offers nothing new after the opening hours except maybe an occasional narrative sting. And that's fine. I enjoy that and am currently enjoying Origins. The methodology in BoTW, however, is based around curiosity and genuine exploration, heading over there because you don't know what might happen. It could be a Korok Seed challenge yes, but it could be a resolution to a side quest you weren't even tracking, or a climbing puzzle or a shrine or a memory. It is rarely just something to kill (and if it is, it often comes with a unique reward). The wonder of BoTW is not knowing what's coming next. That doesn't happen in your Far Cries or Creeds.

I get that BoTW isn't for everyone, but I do not understand how you can dismiss it as just another Open World game.

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Photek wrote:

PES Fan wrote:

Photek wrote:I’m....agreeing with Hime...??!!

Yeah I’d put AC Origins on a par with BOTW tbh.

I’d put both of them miles ahead of Far Cry 4 though.

Have you played BOTW?

I have BOTW on Wii U and Switch.

I've just started Origins and though it is undeniably gorgeous it's the same old same old: your interaction with the world is limited to scanning things and killing things. BoTW does so much more than that. I'm 50 hours in and the game is still finding ways to surprise and delight. After 2 hours with Origins, I feel I've seen everything it has to offer, and the rest of the game will consist of moving through the rote plot and upgrading my ability to kill.

Although I was messing with smurphy he was right. Comparing 99% of Open World games to BoTW is pointless.

Anyway, on the subject of Far Cry. Loved 1, was frustrated yet surprised by 2, thought 3 was interesting and played about 5 hours of 4 before becoming bored. This looks to be more of the same.

Rock circles and baloon popping?

Check out some of the question marks and side missions. Some genuinely interesting and creative stuff.

I was just reading a piece on Waypoint about FC5 and it nailed a fundamental difference between BoTW and other open world games, namely that the former is an "organic, curiosity driven exploration" experience, rather than being about wandering around a map towards, as you say, big white question marks.

The Ubisoft method is a giant check list unveiled after climbing a tower. It is a 'go here kill that' based structure that offers nothing new after the opening hours except maybe an occasional narrative sting. The methodology in BoTW is based around curiosity and genuine exploration, heading over there because you don't know what might happen. It could be a Korok Seed challenge yes, but it could be a resolution to a side quest you weren't even tracking, or a climbing puzzle or a shrine or a memory. It is rarely just something to kill (and if it is, it often comes with a unique reward).

I get that BoTW isn't for everyone, but I do not understand how you can dismiss it as just another Open World game.

I did have that happen one in BoTW to be fair and it was cool but it's hardly a regular occurance, I can't remember there being any particularly interesting side quests. I'm not sure what you mean by a climbing puzzle and only a hand full of shrines were interesting. The exploration is done much better in Bethesda games (I know that's moving the goal posts a bit but valid in the context of BoTW). Most of the time exploration doesn't get you anything. It can feel a bit mindless in AC but nice when one of the question marks pays off.

Far Cry 5 is getting rid of the towers in favour of more organic exploration, finding maps and notes, etc rather than towers.

I'm genuinely sorry you didn't click with Zelda as it's been one of the most rewarding experiences in my* 30 years of playing games. Definitely top 5 ever for sure. The rinse/repeat iterations of Ubi games (and even Bethesda these days after the disappointing F4) just can't compare.

Like I say, I'm having fun with Origins but I'll have forgotten about it a few days after I'm done.

*and apparently many, many people's

Tafdolphin wrote:I'm genuinely sorry you didn't click with Zelda as it's been one of the most rewarding experiences in my* 30 years of playing games. Definitely top 5 ever for sure. The rinse/repeat iterations of Ubi games (and even Bethesda these days after the disappointing F4) just can't compare.

Like I say, I'm having fun with Origins but I'll have forgotten about it a few days after I'm done.

*and apparently many, many people's

I loved it, I just wish I knew what people think is so great about it as an open world game as almost everything in it is in otger games and the core Zelda bits are arguably the worst of any of the 3D games. I have unrealsitic expectations for Nintendo games as they're usually peerless.

I very much doubt Far Cry 5 will be as good as BoTW but I'm looking forward to see how they change up the open world formula as BoTW was more of the same for me.

I encountered a woman contemplating suicide by a cliff in AC Origins, I’m finding every side mission genuinely interesting, the stories behind these and the harrowing main story arc are things completely missing in BOTW.

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:I'm genuinely sorry you didn't click with Zelda as it's been one of the most rewarding experiences in my* 30 years of playing games. Definitely top 5 ever for sure. The rinse/repeat iterations of Ubi games (and even Bethesda these days after the disappointing F4) just can't compare.

Like I say, I'm having fun with Origins but I'll have forgotten about it a few days after I'm done.

*and apparently many, many people's

I loved it, I just wish I knew what people think is so great about it as an open world game as almost everything in it is in otger games and the core Zelda bits are arguably the worst of any of the 3D games. I have unrealsitic expectations for Nintendo games as they're usually peerless.

I very much doubt Far Cry 5 will be as good as BoTW but I'm looking forward to see how they change up the open world formula as BoTW was more of the same for me.

Well, I tried to explain, but for me it's the wonder of it. The possibility. It is like Skyrim in that way, but it's Skyrim with an immense sense of joy, free from plodding faux-medieval lore and with a far superior style to it. It makes me feel like I felt when I was playing games for the first time back in the early 90s, when my imagination was filling in the gaps and creating 80% of the fun. Only this time, the things I imagined are actually in the game.

I suppose it's not something you can impart really, so all that is rather moot. It's just...joyous in a way so few experiences are these days.

Photek wrote:I encountered a woman contemplating suicide by a cliff in AC Origins, I’m finding every side mission genuinely interesting, the stories behind these and the harrowing main story arc are things completely missing in BOTW.

Very true. When I played OoT, right after finishing FFVII, I rejected the former as it wasn't the game I was looking for at the time. Zelda is not nor has it ever been a narrative game series, and pointing that out is a bit like noticing BioShock doesn't have a combo points system.

Random mention here, so far the Origins main plot is super dull

But it's nothing like Skyrim because what you find is generally a rock circle with one missing or a shine with an uninspired puzzle or cpmbat trial. There are exceptions to the rule and how you feel about a game is obviously more than just the sum of it parts but I think you should be able to describe why something is revolutionary objectively rather than just it being fun, full of joy, etc.

It's fair to say that Zelda has never been about narrative but the reasons these other games are better is because they add a narrative twist to the exploitation, therefore Zelda's side quests can be reduced to little more than fetch quests and nothing else. The thing Zelda is known for is dungeons and what there is in this game is not up to scratch with what is in previous games.

For me the Far Cry games have more going for them because I enjoy FPS combat more than third person hack and slash. Coming up with a way to take out a convoy or wipe out an enemy base is something I don't get in other open world games. There is normally a pay off pf better weapons and upgrades to make ot worthwhile.

Hime wrote:

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Hime wrote:BoTW is essentially the Ubisoft open world formula and people think that's the best game ever.

Why, because it has towers?

Yeah, that's probably the defining attribute of Ubisoft open world games as well as the climbing.

The generic Ubisoft formula is an open world that contains huge amounts of things to complete, be that side missions or finding collectibles. The focus is on ticking off content.

BOTW is an open world designed around exploration and discovery. The focus is on gameplay.

BOTW is much more of a sandbox. The only Ubisoft game I'd compare it to is grow home, which was strikingly different from the usual AAA Ubisoft offerings, and the only game I can think of with comparable climbing mechanics.

Hime wrote:But it's nothing like Skyrim because what you find is generally a rock circle with one missing or a shine with an uninspired puzzle or cpmbat trial. There are exceptions to the rule and how you feel about a game is obviously more than just the sum of it parts but I think you should be able to describe why something is revolutionary objectively rather than just it being fun, full of joy, etc.

It's fair to say that Zelda has never been about narrative but the reasons these other games are better is because they add a narrative twist to the exploitation, therefore Zelda's side quests can be reduced to little more than fetch quests and nothing else. The thing Zelda is known for is dungeons and what there is in this game is not up to scratch with what is in previous games.

For me the Far Cry games have more going for them because I enjoy FPS combat more than third person hack and slash. Coming up with a way to take out a convoy or wipe out an enemy base is something I don't get in other open world games. There is normally a pay off pf better weapons and upgrades to make ot worthwhile.

We're reading from different pages here, which is of course perfectly normal. You and Photek appear to put a big emphasis on story which is cool. I generally prefer that sort of game also, but BoTW's mechanics and systems supercede that need for me.

Like I say it's always a shame when a game like that, a Game of the Generation contender, passes people by. Everything you've said about BoTW I said about OoT when it was released and I still feel like I missed something huge back then.

Fingers crossed for Skyrim 2 somewhere down the line!

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Hime wrote:

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Hime wrote:BoTW is essentially the Ubisoft open world formula and people think that's the best game ever.

Why, because it has towers?

Yeah, that's probably the defining attribute of Ubisoft open world games as well as the climbing.

The generic Ubisoft formula is an open world that contains huge amounts of things to complete, be that side missions or finding collectibles. The focus is on ticking off content.

BOTW is an open world designed around exploration and discovery. The focus is on gameplay.

BOTW is much more of a sandbox. The only Ubisoft game I'd compare it to is grow home, which was strikingly different from the usual AAA Ubisoft offerings, and the only game I can think of with comparable climbing mechanics.

As I said the Far Cry games are also mostly about the gameplay.

What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

Hime wrote:What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

I mean, look back through the recent posts here. People have tried to explain. Several times.

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

I mean, look back through the recent posts here. People have tried to explain. Several times.

And as I said, calling it charming or joyful are not actual explanations.

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

I mean, look back through the recent posts here. People have tried to explain. Several times.

And as I said, calling it charming or joyful are not actual explanations.

By what metric?

I don't have the technical language to explain which specific mechanisms make BoTW better, so I tried to express instead how these manifested in me. If that's not enough I have nothing else for you.

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

I mean, look back through the recent posts here. People have tried to explain. Several times.

And as I said, calling it charming or joyful are not actual explanations.

By what metric?

I don't have the technical language to explain which specific mechanisms make BoTW better, so I tried to express instead how these manifested in me. If that's not enough I have nothing else for you.

By that metric Yoshi's Wooly World is the best game ever made.

I don't want be dismissive of BoTW because it's awesome but when Ubisoft and Bethesda open world games are often dismissed as being generic and uninspired it should be easier to explain objectively how Zelda has revolutionised the genre.

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

Hime wrote:What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

I mean, look back through the recent posts here. People have tried to explain. Several times.

And as I said, calling it charming or joyful are not actual explanations.

By what metric?

I don't have the technical language to explain which specific mechanisms make BoTW better, so I tried to express instead how these manifested in me. If that's not enough I have nothing else for you.

By that metric Yoshi's Wooly World is the best game ever made.

I don't want be dismissive of BoTW because it's awesome but when Ubisoft and Bethesda open world games are often dismissed as being generic and uninspired it should be easier to explain objectively how Zelda has revolutionised the genre.

Welp, like I say I've got nothing more for you. This guy however, does:

Joseph Anderson, also enjoys the game, but he isn't without complaints. In this almost-two-hour video, he dives deep into Breath of the Wild, including the aspects that worked well for him—the world, the implicit player-created stories, the exploration and traversal, and those that don't. I don't agree with Anderson's assessment of the shrines (he is decidedly not a fan of most of them), I certainly understand where he is coming from, as a fellow fan of previous games huge, well-designed puzzle boxes.

Anderson also goes in deep with the combat, going so far as to actually, scientifically calculate damage based on enemy, weapon, and armor stats. It's fascinating.

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article ... -your-time

I'm half-learning so much about BotW today Namely that the GotG has Ubi Towers (mindblown.gif) and that... they strawberry floated with the dungeons?!

Hime wrote:By that metric Yoshi's Wooly World is the best game ever made.

That's an interesting statement in and of itself -- there is a school of thought that says that, if Yoshi's Wooly World is the game you honestly enjoyed the most out of all the games you've played, then for you it is the best game.

Hime wrote:

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Hime wrote:

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Hime wrote:BoTW is essentially the Ubisoft open world formula and people think that's the best game ever.

Why, because it has towers?

Yeah, that's probably the defining attribute of Ubisoft open world games as well as the climbing.

The generic Ubisoft formula is an open world that contains huge amounts of things to complete, be that side missions or finding collectibles. The focus is on ticking off content.

BOTW is an open world designed around exploration and discovery. The focus is on gameplay.

BOTW is much more of a sandbox. The only Ubisoft game I'd compare it to is grow home, which was strikingly different from the usual AAA Ubisoft offerings, and the only game I can think of with comparable climbing mechanics.

As I said the Far Cry games are also mostly about the gameplay.

What do you discover from exploration in BoTW that I haven't mentioned? I get that finding things organically is different to going to markers on a map but as discussed how is this different to something like Skyrim or Fallout?

On core gameplay mechanics zelda and far cry are pretty incomparable as they are different genres. We're talking more about game structure right? With the general Ubisoft open world structure as I said being about checklists and content padding, which botw does not follow.

The discovery in botw is the discovery of gameplay mechanics and systems interplay. That's very different to the type of exploration bethesda do, which is environmental and lore discovery. The environment design in botw is mainly to encourage gameplay exploration, which is why I call it more of a sandbox experience.