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Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:32 pm
by Cal
[iup=3569094]Corazon de Leon[/iup] wrote:As a person and a speaker I can't stand Alex Salmond, but I can't argue that he's been a good first minister and spokesman for Scotland. For anyone feeling a bit of schadenfreude watching his press conference (I haven't seen it yet), remember that last night was the culmination of his career and his life's work, and he ultimately failed. Whatever you think of his goals, spare a bit of sympathy.


Why? His vision of an Independent Scotland was firmly rejected by a democratic mandate. What's to feel sorry for? I'm sure he'll pick up a few handy consultancies and directorships along the way. Failing that, his friends over at the EU could probably rustle up a well-paid job or two in the gravy-train Brussels bureaucracy. He played the democratic game and he lost - them's the rules. Bye bye, Salmond.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:34 pm
by Vermin
Narrowly rejected, surely?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:35 pm
by Eighthours
Smoked Salmond replaced by a Sturgeon. NO MORE ELITIST FOOD LEADERS IN THE SNP.

I'm sorry to see Salmond go, tbh - despite not agreeing with anything he says, and thinking he acts beyond smug all the time, I was hoping he would stick around to follow through the negotiation for new powers to Scotland, as he has certainly achieved more than any other individual when it comes to the movement for independence, even though he didn't ultimately win. (Although one of his last acts as leader was to refuse the Daily Telegraph reporters access to his press conference, which is contemptible.)

In other news, Ed Miliband has already U-turned on the new powers thing. He proposes a 'Constitutional Convention For The UK' - what a strawberry floating Rubik's Cube that man is.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:37 pm
by elite knight danbo
Sky News: Miliband 'not signing up to PM's devolution plan'

How long did that take?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:38 pm
by Corazon de Leon
Miliband's guaranteed that Labour will be getting no votes from Scotland at the next GE.

[iup=3569103]Cal[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569094]Corazon de Leon[/iup] wrote:As a person and a speaker I can't stand Alex Salmond, but I can't argue that he's been a good first minister and spokesman for Scotland. For anyone feeling a bit of schadenfreude watching his press conference (I haven't seen it yet), remember that last night was the culmination of his career and his life's work, and he ultimately failed. Whatever you think of his goals, spare a bit of sympathy.


Why? His vision of an Independent Scotland was firmly rejected by a democratic mandate. What's to feel sorry for? I'm sure he'll pick up a few handy consultancies and directorships along the way. Failing that, his friends over at the EU could probably rustle up a well-paid job or two in the gravy-train Brussels bureaucracy. He played the democratic game and he lost - them's the rules. Bye bye, Salmond.


Yes, he lost fair and square. But imagine you'd taken something you firmly believe in that is not largely accepted to the point of a national referendum - say the existence of climate change - and lost. Furthermore, you're then ridiculed across the social media of the UK for it and feel forced to step down from your working position. Don't tell me you wouldn't feel pretty shitty about it, moreso for having to stand in front of the cameras and take everything that's coming to you. Spare a bit of common decency.

EDIT: Even Eighthours agrees with the sentiment, it seems.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:39 pm
by TheWay
TimeGhost wrote:Narrowly rejected, surely?

I'd have added extremely to the start of that sentence, TG.

As Cora has said he's an uncharismatic man, but he has been good for Scotland. He would've been useful in ensuring that Scotland got concessions from UK Government. It feels a job half done.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:41 pm
by Corazon de Leon
He's the first person since Donald Dewar to make the office of First Minister seem like a genuine political position rather than a sideshow to Westminster. I respect that.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:42 pm
by Eighthours
[iup=3569113]TheWay[/iup] wrote:As Cora has said he's an uncharismatic man


Surely he's the exact opposite in the eyes of many. It's his perceived charisma that galvanised the independence movement in the first place.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:42 pm
by Vermin
[iup=3569110]elite knight danbo[/iup] wrote:Sky News: Miliband 'not signing up to PM's devolution plan'

How long did that take?


It's only the part about no scotch mps voting on english matters as a requirement for the devo plan to go ahead that Ed has a problem with. Labour needs those mps to have a say.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:45 pm
by Corazon de Leon
I can't get on news sites - who will take over from Salmond and when?

[iup=3569118]Eighthours[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569113]TheWay[/iup] wrote:As Cora has said he's an uncharismatic man


Surely he's the exact opposite in the eyes of many. It's his perceived charisma that galvanised the independence movement in the first place.


He's been very well media trained, and knows how to control a crowd. I wouldn't have said uncharismatic, only that he does nothing for me as a person.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:49 pm
by SchminkyPinky
Salmond is an intelligent man with the gift of the gab but he's also incredibly arrogant and dismissive which came across plenty of times in some of his most recent interviews leading up to the vote.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:53 pm
by elite knight danbo
A brave and tenacious man showing integrity and stepping down. Won't see that in UK politics again for a long strawberry floating time.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:55 pm
by Eighthours
The more I read about it, the more pathetic it seems for Salmond to have barred a whole host of newspapers from his press conference. Imagine how he would have run things if Scotland had voted yes.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:57 pm
by Irene Demova
"The more I read the more I affirm my own views"

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:05 pm
by Qikz
[iup=3569131]elite knight danbo[/iup] wrote:A brave and tenacious man showing integrity and stepping down. Won't see that in UK politics again for a long strawberry floating time.


To me it looks more like someone who is giving up. Despite not having independence which was voted against by the majority of voters in Scotland he could've continued to fight for the Scottish people. Unless of course, his reason for doing all this in the first place was his own personal gain, which if anything by stepping down it gives the illusion that it was.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:10 pm
by elite knight danbo
[iup=3569139]Qikz[/iup] wrote:To me it looks more like someone who is giving up. Despite not having independence which was voted against by the majority of voters in Scotland he could've continued to fight for the Scottish people. Unless of course, his reason for doing all this in the first place was his own personal gain, which if anything by stepping down it gives the illusion that it was.


Scotland doesn't deserve to be fought for now.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:11 pm
by Corazon de Leon
In the pictures I've seen he looks broken. His entire mandate when he came into power was to make Scotland independent and he's failed - what is the point in him sticking around now that the core reason for being there is gone, Staydead?

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:11 pm
by Bigerich
[iup=3569113]TheWay[/iup] wrote:
TimeGhost wrote:Narrowly rejected, surely?

I'd have added extremely to the start of that sentence, TG.


There are 20% more NO voters than YES voters. That is not narrow.

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:11 pm
by kommissarboris
The Ulster Scots collective dream is over.

Image

Re: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:13 pm
by KB
[iup=3569144]Bigerich[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3569113]TheWay[/iup] wrote:
TimeGhost wrote:Narrowly rejected, surely?

I'd have added extremely to the start of that sentence, TG.


There are 20% more NO voters than YES voters. That is not narrow.

It's like 390,000 votes, not a huge margin in a national vote.