[DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

The boss of Wetherspoon, one of Britain's biggest pub chains, has said Scotland could thrive on its own, and the company is forging ahead with expansion plans north of the border.

Tim Martin, who founded the chain in 1979, said: "There is no rational reason why Scotland shouldn't be able to thrive as an independent country if it has a sensible economic policy. There are lots of countries around the world with a similar population to Scotland that have done so. It will depend entirely on the will of the Scots. They have to work hard."

He held up New Zealand and Singapore as examples of small countries that have done well.

Wetherspoon is Scotland's largest managed pub chain with 75 outlets, employing 4,000 people. A managed pub has to buy some of its beer from a particular brewery or its parent company in contrast to free houses, which are independent watering holes.

Wetherspoon has opened six new pubs in Scotland in the last four months and Martin said he was aiming for about 100, employing 5,000 to 6,000 people, in five years' time, with turnover climbing to £150m from £100m.

In contrast to a growing number of retailers who have warned the higher cost of doing business in an independent Scotland would drive up prices in the shops , Martin said it was possible the price of a pint could fall.

"It's absurd and underestimates the intelligence of the public to say things like the cost of your supermarket goods is going to rise and [independence] is going to result in economic dislocation."

If the yes camp prevails, the Scottish government "might reduce VAT in pubs to the same level as in supermarkets, and they might do the same for business rates to encourage cafes and pubs. It might bring down the cost of a pint in a pub or restaurant", he said.

He said he had not yet spoken to Scotland's first minister Alex Samond: "If they do get independence, he will be hearing from me within 24 hours," he added, with a chuckle.

Martin highlighted the VAT disparity between supermarkets and pubs as the biggest danger to the pub industry in the UK.

His comments came as a new YouGov poll showed that the no vote is back in the lead in Scotland.

Wetherspoon beat City forecasts with a 3.1% rise to £79.4m in full-year underlying profits and expects a "reasonable" outcome for the current year, following a pick-up in like-for-like sales to 6.3% in the past six weeks. Opening for breakfast, serving coffee and cappucino, along with a revamp of its food menus and promotions like curry clubs and 'beer and a burger' bargains have drawn in punters, and Wetherspoon has grown to more than 900 pubs. Wetherspoon has also become the No 1 seller of microbrewery beers in Britain, Martin said.

You need to treat all Scottish polls with caution, due to the sample size and the fact that the turnout may be high enough to include people who polling companies don’t know exist. But YouGov found that the under-25s (the ones more likely to vote on the day, rather than by post) have switched from a 20-point lead for ‘yes’ to a 6-point lead for ‘no’ in under a week.

[iup=3562697]Poser[/iup] wrote:Not sure if this has been raised yet, but this guy makes a valid point:

[iup=3562828]Lucien[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3562726]Cal[/iup] wrote:Fascinating. I'd always kind of assumed that amongst the 16-20+ voters there would be a definite majority for 'yes', but it seems young people in Scotland have been weighing up their future options and have clearly thought about their prospects under an Independent Scotland vs remaining part of United Kingdom.

They've clearly thought about it because you think they're voting No?

[iup=3562833]Cal[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3562828]Lucien[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3562726]Cal[/iup] wrote:Fascinating. I'd always kind of assumed that amongst the 16-20+ voters there would be a definite majority for 'yes', but it seems young people in Scotland have been weighing up their future options and have clearly thought about their prospects under an Independent Scotland vs remaining part of United Kingdom.

They've clearly thought about it because you think they're voting No?

I'll ignore the sneer in that remark.

[iup=3562832]TimeGhost[/iup] wrote:

'please do not leave it to others to decide what is best for you'

...

'I suggest that if you don't know - then you should vote NO.'

[iup=3562900]Lucien[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3562833]Cal[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3562828]Lucien[/iup] wrote:

[iup=3562726]Cal[/iup] wrote:Fascinating. I'd always kind of assumed that amongst the 16-20+ voters there would be a definite majority for 'yes', but it seems young people in Scotland have been weighing up their future options and have clearly thought about their prospects under an Independent Scotland vs remaining part of United Kingdom.

They've clearly thought about it because you think they're voting No?

I'll ignore the sneer in that remark. I think it's interesting that the young vote - something the SNP clearly hoped to leverage to their advantage - may not be quite so dependable for the 'yes' vote. An interesting turn of events if it's correct.

I wasn't sneering. You said young people were clearly thinking about the issue right after you showed a poll that swung them towards No. I wondered if you felt No votes were more considered than Yes ones, i.e. hearts over minds.

[iup=3562911]Irene Demova[/iup] wrote:"I've thought long and hard and decided to pick the option that changes nothing"

[iup=3562691]Eighthours[/iup] wrote:Nobody in the No campaign has said that Scotland will collapse into ruin if it goes independent. Winckle, it IS Salmond's job to present his case fairly and truthfully, and not to seek to deceive the Scottish people. Unless, of course, he genuinely believes there will be no fallout from independence whatsoever, which I don't believe for a second.

The Treasury briefed journalists about RBS's intention to relocate to London if Scotland were to go for independence, before RBS's board had formally made the decision to announce the move, I have learned.

In a related development, the First Minister of Scotland has accused the Treasury in a new letter to the Cabinet Secretary of a "politically motivated breach of all accepted protocols on market sensitive information", in the way that it disclosed to the media on Wednesday evening that Royal Bank of Scotland was planning to move its legal home across the border.

[iup=3563247]Meep[/iup] wrote:So long as Better Together keeps portraying independence as some kind of doomsday scenario then they aren't really in any position to criticise the Yes camp for not being realistic.

[iup=3563296]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:A simple but very important question for the Yes supporters/voters.

What is the proposed economic plan for an independent Scotland in the event of no Formal currency union?

The No camp fear mongering has had an effect on me – instead of retiring on 19th. September, I am staying in. This referendum is about power, and when we get a Yes majority, we will use that power for a day of reckoning with BP and the banks.
The heads of these companies are rich men, in cahoots with a rich English Tory Prime Minister, to keep Scotland’s poor, poorer through lies and distortions. The power they have now to subvert our democracy will come to an end with a Yes.
BP, in an independent Scotland, will need to learn the meaning of nationalisation, in part or in whole, as it has in other countries who have not been as soft as we have forced to be. If it wants into the ‘monster fields’ in the areas west of Shetland, it will have to learn to bend the knee to a greater power – us, the sovereign people of Scotland. We will be the masters of the oil fields, not BP or any other of the majors. If Bob Dudley thinks this is mere rhetoric, just let him wait. It is sovereign power that counts. We will have it, he will not.
As for the Bankers. Your casino days, rescued by socialisation of your liabilities while you waltz off with the profits, will be over. You will be split between retail and investment, and if your greed takes the latter down, there will be no rescue. You believe in the market, in future you will live with its discipline. Fail will mean failure.
As for Standard Life, it will be required by new employment laws to give two years warning of any redundancies, and reveal to the trade unions its financial reasons for relocation to any country outside of Scotland, and the costs involved. It has never crossed the minds of our compliant Unionist media, especially the BBC, to ask the Chief Executive what his costings are on his proposed moves.
As for John Lewis, the question is whether the senior management consulted the ‘partners’ or took instructions from Cameron? Another question our supine BBC did not ask. There is now talk of boycott, and if it happens it will be a management own goal.
What kind of people do these companies think we are? They will find out.