[DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence - It's a No!

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Should Scotland be an independent country?

YES (I am eligible to vote in the referendum)
30
16%
NO (I am eligible to vote in the referendum)
19
10%
YES (I will not be eligible)
30
16%
NO (I will not be eligible)
111
58%
 
Total votes: 190
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Rocsteady
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Rocsteady » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:00 am

Boy I know wearing a no sticker got spat on by a yes group, made me rage to even hear about it. Would have lost the plot.

I honestly don't think there's much chance of serious rioting whatever way the vote goes. I think it'll be more an air of general acceptance, but we'll see I guess.

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TheTurnipKing
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by TheTurnipKing » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:32 am

[iup=3567392]degoose[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567215]TheTurnipKing[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567170]degoose[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567127]TheTurnipKing[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567081]Alvin Flummux[/iup] wrote:Why can't people get so energized about voting in normal elections?

Because the question posed in a general election isn't something the ordinary man in the street can, or want to, really have a strong, informed opinion on. There's a lot of conflated issues and no matter what you vote for they're probably going to just do what they want once they get into office anyway.

This is a much simpler question that just about any booze soaked pisshound can understand and interact with. Granted, it has a lot of attached questions, but there's a single core issue that's easy to grasp.

And this is a big problem in my opinion as I think a lot of votes will just be using no brainpower at all and salmond is going for that .He has no actual plan for the currency ,income ,the EU and time frames to progress things if it is yes .He just seems to be psyching people up and hoping they say yes,sadly this is splitting people heavily in Scotland and creating an actual divide in a country supposedly united in salmond's eyes.

Well, given that most of the power is currently in Westminster, I'd have thought that there isn't actually all that much for Salmond to do about most of this stuff until independence. Most of the issues depend rather heavily on what deals will be struck and what will be traded off. I could see the currency question and the matter of the nuclear defences being closely balanced. Equally likely, I could see an arrangement on currency being reached, trading off years of total fiscal autonomy for a currency union lasting x number of years.

An equally good question is why the Westminster doesn't appear to be presenting any plans and timetables for the eventuality that this goes ahead.

I find this crazy when people talk about power ,if salmond becomes in charge he won't do what is good for the country but what is good for himself like most politicians do.

Of course. But we wouldn't necessarily elect Salmond.

A vote for Yes is not the same thing as giving Alex Salmond a free pass: Not that you'd know that by listening to the news reporting.

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Buffalo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Buffalo » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:59 am

I'm quite excited. Historic stuff, indeed.
Imagine a passport to get into Scotland?! Sheeeit, that's wild.

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:01 am

[iup=3567421]TheTurnipKing[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567392]degoose[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567215]TheTurnipKing[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567170]degoose[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567127]TheTurnipKing[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567081]Alvin Flummux[/iup] wrote:Why can't people get so energized about voting in normal elections?

Because the question posed in a general election isn't something the ordinary man in the street can, or want to, really have a strong, informed opinion on. There's a lot of conflated issues and no matter what you vote for they're probably going to just do what they want once they get into office anyway.

This is a much simpler question that just about any booze soaked pisshound can understand and interact with. Granted, it has a lot of attached questions, but there's a single core issue that's easy to grasp.

And this is a big problem in my opinion as I think a lot of votes will just be using no brainpower at all and salmond is going for that .He has no actual plan for the currency ,income ,the EU and time frames to progress things if it is yes .He just seems to be psyching people up and hoping they say yes,sadly this is splitting people heavily in Scotland and creating an actual divide in a country supposedly united in salmond's eyes.

Well, given that most of the power is currently in Westminster, I'd have thought that there isn't actually all that much for Salmond to do about most of this stuff until independence. Most of the issues depend rather heavily on what deals will be struck and what will be traded off. I could see the currency question and the matter of the nuclear defences being closely balanced. Equally likely, I could see an arrangement on currency being reached, trading off years of total fiscal autonomy for a currency union lasting x number of years.

An equally good question is why the Westminster doesn't appear to be presenting any plans and timetables for the eventuality that this goes ahead.

I find this crazy when people talk about power ,if salmond becomes in charge he won't do what is good for the country but what is good for himself like most politicians do.

Of course. But we wouldn't necessarily elect Salmond.

A vote for Yes is not the same thing as giving Alex Salmond a free pass: Not that you'd know that by listening to the news reporting.


I'd argue that you'd need to be especially naive to think that Salmond wouldn't get into government in the aftermath of a Yes vote unless he retired from politics. Which, actually, could happen.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Lagamorph » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:44 am

So if the vote is no, how long before Salmond starts throwing around accusations of fraud and vote rigging?

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PES Fan
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by PES Fan » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:09 am


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elite knight danbo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by elite knight danbo » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:29 am

On 7:04am Thursday 18th September, I voted Yes. I did so on the basis that the risky opportunity to do something better beats the "stable", uncontrollable, steady decline offered by the UK.

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captain red dog
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by captain red dog » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:07 am

All the bookies seem to be predicting a No vote. I fancied trying to make a little bit on the back of it, but I'd have to stick £1k down really to make it worthwhile!

I wonder how many people (on either side) will decry the result as undemocratic tomorrow. :fp:

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Eighthours
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Location: Bristol

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Eighthours » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:20 am

The big day is here! Good luck, Scotland.

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Moggy
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AKA: Moggy

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Moggy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:24 am

[iup=3567496]captain red dog[/iup] wrote:All the bookies seem to be predicting a No vote. I fancied trying to make a little bit on the back of it, but I'd have to stick £1k down really to make it worthwhile!

I wonder how many people (on either side) will decry the result as undemocratic tomorrow. :fp:


I suggest people don't bet if they are living in Scotland. You might win your bet, but tomorrow you might not have a valid currency to use in order for the bookie to pay out.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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Location: Northampton

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:35 am

[iup=3567470]PES Fan[/iup] wrote:


This is part of the problem of the no campaign. Th yes caring is entirely positive, everything is about the benefits (in their opinion) of voting yes whilst the no campaign is a mixture of the negatives of voting yes and the positives of staying together (in their opinion). If you listening a lot to them there's a lot of negatively. Personally they are right to point about positives and negatives but that leads to miserable strawberry floats like Murray becoming depressed.

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degoose
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Contact:

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by degoose » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:04 am

[iup=3567464]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:So if the vote is no, how long before Salmond starts throwing around accusations of fraud and vote rigging?

probably give it about 5 minutes.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Lagamorph » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:22 am

[iup=3567506]Return_of_the_STAR[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567470]PES Fan[/iup] wrote:


This is part of the problem of the no campaign. Th yes caring is entirely positive, everything is about the benefits (in their opinion) of voting yes whilst the no campaign is a mixture of the negatives of voting yes and the positives of staying together (in their opinion). If you listening a lot to them there's a lot of negatively. Personally they are right to point about positives and negatives but that leads to miserable strawberry floats like Murray becoming depressed.

But the negatives have to be put out there. By completely ignoring the potential negatives and problems of independence by never acknowledging or discussing them the Yes campaign are essentially misleading people.

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captain red dog
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by captain red dog » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:28 am

By the very nature of it, the no side is going to be portrayed as negative. I actually don't think they were negative at all, they picked apart the independence campaign quite legitimately. The Yes campaign had no answers, and every point made was just called scaremongoring or bullying.

The whole yes campaign boiled down go "let's believe in ourselves and everything will be fine". Its a much easier message to get across.

Surprised Murray tweeted that, he has been at pains to make up with English fans after his comments about the football a few years ago that he says was taken out of context.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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Joined in 2008
Location: Northampton

PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:42 am

[iup=3567531]Lagamorph[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567506]Return_of_the_STAR[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3567470]PES Fan[/iup] wrote:


This is part of the problem of the no campaign. Th yes caring is entirely positive, everything is about the benefits (in their opinion) of voting yes whilst the no campaign is a mixture of the negatives of voting yes and the positives of staying together (in their opinion). If you listening a lot to them there's a lot of negatively. Personally they are right to point about positives and negatives but that leads to miserable strawberry floats like Murray becoming depressed.

But the negatives have to be put out there. By completely ignoring the potential negatives and problems of independence by never acknowledging or discussing them the Yes campaign are essentially misleading people.


Yes that's why I said that they are right to put out both the positives and the negatives. It's just that some people are easily sucked into to face painting, cheering and bag pipes.

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KK
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by KK » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:46 am

Does this mean we're now REALLY going to have to get behind Laura Robson at next year's Wimbledon?

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False
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by False » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:49 am

Good luck, GRScots

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captain red dog
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by captain red dog » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:50 am

Its odd that he chose to get involved. It looks narrowly, narrowly like a no vote, and Murray has just murdered his support south of the border. All he had to do was keep quiet another 24 hours! :lol:

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False
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by False » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:53 am

[iup=3567557]captain red dog[/iup] wrote:Its odd that he chose to get involved. It looks narrowly, narrowly like a no vote, and Murray has just murdered his support south of the border. All he had to do was keep quiet another 24 hours! :lol:


Did he?

Or will everyone just forget next time he represents Britain?

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bear
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] Scottish Independence
by bear » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:59 am

[iup=3567557]captain red dog[/iup] wrote:Its odd that he chose to get involved. It looks narrowly, narrowly like a no vote, and Murray has just murdered his support south of the border. All he had to do was keep quiet another 24 hours! :lol:


Like you said it looks narrowly like a No vote will happen. If Murray believes in Independence and thinks his opinion might sway a few undecided voters why shouldn't he declare in favour of yes?


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