Sexual misconduct and the Gaming Community.

Last edited by Photek on Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think we should have a topic for this (if there is not one already).

I've just linked today's most recent revelation over the conduct of the Evo CEO and his alleged pedophilia
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-07-03-evo-online-cancelled-ceo-fired-following-sexual-misconduct-allegations

Now, there is dozens upon dozens of these allegations that have cropped up in the past week or so and we need to look at what the actual f**k is going on? Toxic Masculinity? Gamer Bro culture? Nerds not knowing how to talk to women? Maybe all 3 but holy strawberry float!

It's not really an issue unique to the gaming community, we've seen exactly the same things happen with actors and politicians. As soon as a certain type of person gets into a position of fame and/or power then it brings out this side of them. I don't really think it's fair to say that fame is the cause, there are plenty of famous actors who've had no such accusations made against them after all, but it seems that when particular people get into those positions they simply stop caring and do whatever they want because they think they can get away with it and there won't be consequences.

Lagamorph wrote:It's not really an issue unique to the gaming community, we've seen exactly the same things happen with actors and politicians. As soon as a certain type of person gets into a position of fame and/or power then it brings out this side of them. I don't really think it's fair to say that fame is the cause, there are plenty of famous actors who've had no such accusations made against them after all, but it seems that when particular people get into those positions they simply stop caring and do whatever they want because they think they can get away with it and there won't be consequences.

I disagree, the scale of this IS unique to the gaming community. Yes the patterns of power and privilege are similar but this is permeating every single facet of gaming culture from devs, to journalists to streamers. The wider society has an issue sure but I can't see another industry where this is RIFE in every single facet of it.

Define "gaming community" and "gaming culture". With apparently 2 billion people worldwide playing videogames according to Nielsen, I don't know what parameters that includes any more. It's an industry so vast it's now inevitable you're going to have bad people partaking in it. It's not like, say, the pro wrestling industry, which has found itself facing similar behaviour under the "speaking out" movement this month, but is ultimately comprised of thousands rather than millions of people.

Maybe online specifically there's something there that attracts a certain type of individual. I don't follow these eStreamer or social media personalities and communities, but that to me has always appeared very negative and very vocal.

In terms of the core industry itself, this is where you need stats rather than anecdotal evidence. Compared to other industries and professions, are the number of sexual assaults, harassment, bullying and things of that nature reportedly higher than in other jobs? There could be this huge problem there but equally as such not be unique to videogaming. We know there's a diversity issue in videogame development for example. If you're, say, a minority woman in an office full of men, there's probably a high possibility that isn't going to lead to an ideal working environment.

I can't see another industry where this is RIFE in every single facet of it.

Is it genuinely rife, or is it just the perception that it is? I have zero idea, but an industry that is online focused and has a vocal online audience to the extent gaming now does is going to be more obvious than an industry that doesn't have that very public engagement.

Photek wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:It's not really an issue unique to the gaming community, we've seen exactly the same things happen with actors and politicians. As soon as a certain type of person gets into a position of fame and/or power then it brings out this side of them. I don't really think it's fair to say that fame is the cause, there are plenty of famous actors who've had no such accusations made against them after all, but it seems that when particular people get into those positions they simply stop caring and do whatever they want because they think they can get away with it and there won't be consequences.

I disagree, the scale of this IS unique to the gaming community. Yes the patterns of power and privilege are similar but this is permeating every single facet of gaming culture from devs, to journalists to streamers. The wider society has an issue sure but I can't see another industry where this is RIFE in every single facet of it.

The film industry has been.pretty bad, look at all the.recent paedo gooseberry fool that happened after Jimmy Saville and all the #metoo gooseberry fool with film directors and publishers etc. Its not just rife in the gaimg community, it may simply be that you have a bigger interest in games and are noticing it more.

I play games, but i certainly don't consider myself part of the 'gaming community', nor do i involve myself in 'gaming culture'

You say that posting on a gaming enthusiast forum

There is no homogeneous gaming community, but there are absolutely problems in the industry itself and in different communities relating to it

I've seen it rife in the FGC recently, more specifically Smash, but that's mainly because the Smash community is a favourite punching bag so I keep an ear out there a bit more.

And with that it's pretty obvious why. Apparently Pokemon had something similar, but I didn't look into it, myself. But when you have a baby game for babies there are going yo be more up and coming kids playing it and going to tournaments and the like. Then they see the adults in a mentor role, idolise them, mingle with them and as was the case with Nairo, instigating the sex as a 15 year old.

Then because, as Photek mentioned, said other players are nerds who don't know how to handle the pressures of esports and fame, don't think right and don't think that maybe they shouldn't let this 15 year old boy suck your dick in a hotel room, and pay said 15 year old $2000 in hush money.

Obviously this is just one case, and even amongst the Smash stories I couldn't read every single example (those were heavy reads), but I'm going to assume there's a trend here based on what I saw of some of the other stories where both parties suggest it just kind of happened and the adult went along with it.

Of course there was one I read where a legal girl was just black out drunk with a legal guy and slut shamed afterwards, but that's also possibly a "nerds can't talk to girls" thing.

Vermilion wrote:I play games, but i certainly don't consider myself part of the 'gaming community', nor do i involve myself in 'gaming culture'

This.

Same applies to being disabled, I am disabled but I don't consider myself as part of the disabled community, and why should I, its part of who I am but it doesn't define me as an individual.

Pedz wrote:
Photek wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:It's not really an issue unique to the gaming community, we've seen exactly the same things happen with actors and politicians. As soon as a certain type of person gets into a position of fame and/or power then it brings out this side of them. I don't really think it's fair to say that fame is the cause, there are plenty of famous actors who've had no such accusations made against them after all, but it seems that when particular people get into those positions they simply stop caring and do whatever they want because they think they can get away with it and there won't be consequences.

I disagree, the scale of this IS unique to the gaming community. Yes the patterns of power and privilege are similar but this is permeating every single facet of gaming culture from devs, to journalists to streamers. The wider society has an issue sure but I can't see another industry where this is RIFE in every single facet of it.

The film industry has been.pretty bad, look at all the.recent paedo gooseberry fool that happened after Jimmy Saville and all the #metoo gooseberry fool with film directors and publishers etc. Its not just rife in the gaimg community, it may simply be that you have a bigger interest in games and are noticing it more.

Exactly. It's quite possibly more noticeable in gaming circles because, as KK said, you're talking about 2billion+ people. The number of famous people involved in eSports, Game Development, Game Streaming, etc is just higher than it is in other mediums like acting and politics where we're seeing these same kinds of behaviour, but ultimately it seems to be the same issue with the same kind of people letting fame/wealth go to their head and thinking that the rules don't apply to them anymore and they're untouchable.

I don't think gaming encourages this behaviour anymore than being an actor does. Shitty people are going to do shitty things if they're in the position to do so. They should absolutely be called out for it, and there's nothing wrong with a discussion on the instances of that within gaming as a medium, but I don't think it's fair or helpful to try and make out that it's a problem unique to gaming and gaming is the cause.

KK wrote:Is it genuinely rife, or is it just the perception that it is? I have zero idea

You have zero idea if something is rife, even though there are thousands of people saying it happened?

7256930752

They had a big discussion about this on this week's Giant Bomb for anyone that's interested.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't think you can blame gaming as a whole for the conduct of a very small minority of people associated with it, almost all misconduct by anyone in a privileged position happens because that individual thinks they're above the law or somehow entitled to do as they please.

#notallgamers

The thing is you can't really just look at everyone who plays games and go "Well there are 2 billion of them, so this is normal" when, like Vermillion says, not everyone is actually involved in the community. The FGC is a pretty consistent thing in regards to this: they're the groups getting together for locals and majors and the like. If you maybe played Street Fighter for a few rounds one time with some mates, that doesn't really make you a part of the FGC. It might be a little gatekeepy, but a community requires involvement.

So when you boil it down from "There are hundreds of accusations across gaming" and to "There are hundreds of accusations in the Smash Bros community" then there's absolutely a problem.

I genuinely love how this thread on the abusive culture in games development and its surroundings immediately became a combination of #notallgamers and a semantics debate

"It's not that bad because there are 7 billion people in the world" is a powerful take, certainly.

I must say I’m disappointed that most people’s response was defensive and the “But everyone does it” Take.

Edit: like the guys above. I mean, I thought grcade was better than this.

I actually thought we’d try to delve into the horrid accusations and maybe empathise with the victims and maybe even call out others you seen etc but nope it was all gamer bro thrash from people who feel apparently personally slighted and think the idea gaming culture has a problem as absurd. Blows my strawberry floating mind tbh.

Ironhide wrote:
Vermilion wrote:I play games, but i certainly don't consider myself part of the 'gaming community', nor do i involve myself in 'gaming culture'

This.

Same applies to being disabled, I am disabled but I don't consider myself as part of the disabled community, and why should I, its part of who I am but it doesn't define me as an individual.

I love you man but it’s not the same at all.

To be clear, no one here is a piece of gooseberry fool predator but we need to recognise what’s happening. (Can’t believe I had to write this sentence tbh.)

Photek wrote:I must say I’m disappointed that most people’s response was defensive and the “But everyone does it” Take.

Yeah, but Jimmy Savile was a thing, so I guess this is normal.

Pack it up, guys, nothing to see here.

Sexual misconduct and the Gaming Community.

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