**Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Victor Mildew » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:41 am

I know someone who's seen it 5 times :dread:

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Red Gyaradan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:09 pm

Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by sawyerpip » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:16 pm

Red Gyaradan wrote:Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.


There's a line from Anakin in the film saying something along the lines of "bring balance to the force Rey, like I once did". So JJ accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force but it only lasted 30 years.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Qikz » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:22 pm

Anakin did bring balance to the force. He killed all the Jedi and only 2 were left. 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Palpetine, Vader and Yoda/Obiwan.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Red Gyaradan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:32 pm

sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.


There's a line from Anakin in the film saying something along the lines of "bring balance to the force Rey, like I once did". So JJ accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force but it only lasted 30 years.

But didn't the new Republic collapse only a few years after the events of Ep 6? Hardly a 30 year balance?

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Red Gyaradan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:37 pm

Qikzmas wrote:Anakin did bring balance to the force. He killed all the Jedi and only 2 were left. 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Palpetine, Vader and Yoda/Obiwan.


That's one interpretation, sure: but it's one that appears to be contradicted a lot by the source material, which all leans towards a different interpretation. If you're correct, the only possible true balance would be endless war, or the Jedi and Sith to reach a lasting truce (or alliance).
Your interpretation also contradicts the line from the film that sawyerpip quotes, above - if Rey is encouraged to bring balance, but she is the only Jedi and Palpatine the only remaining Sith (at the point the line is said), surely she cannot bring balance by slaying him.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Dual » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:24 pm

Qikzmas wrote:Anakin did bring balance to the force. He killed all the Jedi and only 2 were left. 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Palpetine, Vader and Yoda/Obiwan.


Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Qikz » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:41 pm

Red Gyaradan wrote:
Qikzmas wrote:Anakin did bring balance to the force. He killed all the Jedi and only 2 were left. 2 Sith and 2 Jedi. Palpetine, Vader and Yoda/Obiwan.


That's one interpretation, sure: but it's one that appears to be contradicted a lot by the source material, which all leans towards a different interpretation. If you're correct, the only possible true balance would be endless war, or the Jedi and Sith to reach a lasting truce (or alliance).
Your interpretation also contradicts the line from the film that sawyerpip quotes, above - if Rey is encouraged to bring balance, but she is the only Jedi and Palpatine the only remaining Sith (at the point the line is said), surely she cannot bring balance by slaying him.


Rei was 1 Jedi, Palpetine was ALL THE SITH

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by sawyerpip » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:48 pm

Red Gyaradan wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.


There's a line from Anakin in the film saying something along the lines of "bring balance to the force Rey, like I once did". So JJ accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force but it only lasted 30 years.

But didn't the new Republic collapse only a few years after the events of Ep 6? Hardly a 30 year balance?


If it lasted less than 30 years that's even worse. Either way Anakin's prophecy is ridiculous, but the new trilogy didn't ignore it. They just made it meaningless.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:32 am

sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.


There's a line from Anakin in the film saying something along the lines of "bring balance to the force Rey, like I once did". So JJ accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force but it only lasted 30 years.

But didn't the new Republic collapse only a few years after the events of Ep 6? Hardly a 30 year balance?


If it lasted less than 30 years that's even worse. Either way Anakin's prophecy is ridiculous, but the new trilogy didn't ignore it. They just made it meaningless.


I thought the new republic was formed after the battle of endor and lasted until it fell apart when starkiller base blew up a number of planets in the Hosnian system?

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by sawyerpip » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:44 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.


There's a line from Anakin in the film saying something along the lines of "bring balance to the force Rey, like I once did". So JJ accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force but it only lasted 30 years.

But didn't the new Republic collapse only a few years after the events of Ep 6? Hardly a 30 year balance?


If it lasted less than 30 years that's even worse. Either way Anakin's prophecy is ridiculous, but the new trilogy didn't ignore it. They just made it meaningless.


I thought the new republic was formed after the battle of endor and lasted until it fell apart when starkiller base blew up a number of planets in the Hosnian system?


That's probably right. My point was that the new films don't ignore the prophecy, they outright confirm it. And so the timeframes don't make sense whatever way you look at it. It's a bit strange to have an ancient prophecy about a chosen one bringing balance to the force if the force becomes imbalanced again within one generation.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by False » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:38 am

tbh I was rooting for Rey to slay palp and ren to slay rey

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:29 am

sawyerpip wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:
sawyerpip wrote:
Red Gyaradan wrote:Just had a thought.

The prequel trilogy refers constantly to the prophecy - that Anakin/Vader will be the one to "bring balance" to the force.

The way this ties in with the original trilogy is that, though he defects to the Sith and becomes evil, A/V is ultimately the one who does bring balance, through his betrayal of and killing of Palpatine, to save his son, Luke.

But if Palpatine didn't die, it means that A/V failed.
Meaning the prophecy was wrong.

So by trying, in his own mind, to "fix" the latest trilogy, JJ has made redundant the entire prequel trilogy, and undone the whole character arc of Vader from the original trilogy.


There's a line from Anakin in the film saying something along the lines of "bring balance to the force Rey, like I once did". So JJ accepted that Anakin brought balance to the force but it only lasted 30 years.

But didn't the new Republic collapse only a few years after the events of Ep 6? Hardly a 30 year balance?


If it lasted less than 30 years that's even worse. Either way Anakin's prophecy is ridiculous, but the new trilogy didn't ignore it. They just made it meaningless.


I thought the new republic was formed after the battle of endor and lasted until it fell apart when starkiller base blew up a number of planets in the Hosnian system?


That's probably right. My point was that the new films don't ignore the prophecy, they outright confirm it. And so the timeframes don't make sense whatever way you look at it. It's a bit strange to have an ancient prophecy about a chosen one bringing balance to the force if the force becomes imbalanced again within one generation.


Yes I completely agree about that.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:02 am

Not that it does any good to whine about what might have been, Trevorrow/Connolly's Episode IX script has leaked:

A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared on Reddit overnight at r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow-Connolly script.

According to the breakdown, which originates on YouTube, Trevorrow’s Episode IX was titled Duel Of The Fates (actually a very good title!) and his last draft was written in December 2016, about a week before the passing of Carrie Fisher. Though certain plot points could have changed during production or through reshoots, Trevorrow and Connolly’s story seems far more compelling than The Rise Of Skywalker. In their version, Kelly Marie Tran’s Rose Tico is given a much larger role and spends a good portion of the film with Finn, C-3PO, and R2-D2 on a mission to light a beacon on Coruscant that will draw allies to assist the Resistance in their final battle against the First Order. Meanwhile, Rey, Poe, and Chewbacca head to a distant planet to find answers that may help Rey figure out what to do about this whole (gestures wildly) situation.

Much of the story is different, with characters like Zorii Bliss and adorable internet fave Babu Frik absent, but the most notable absence is Emperor Palpatine. The late Sith lord does appear in Trevorrow’s script, but not as a living (or whatever the hell it was in Rise) entity. As in Abrams’ version, Kylo Ren travels to Mustafar, but Trevorrow’s script actually follows him there and shows the audience what he’s been up to while Rey tries to figure out if she’s worthy of being a Jedi or if Jedi should even be a thing anymore. While Kylo searches Mustafar for a Sith “holocron”—an artifact that will aid his nefarious plans—he’s tormented by the Force ghost of Luke, who taunts him with lines like, “This is where the dark path leads: an empty tomb.”

The holocron opens to reveal a hologram of Palpatine, apparently leaving his last will and testament to Darth Vader. Should Luke kill the wrinkly old space wizard, Palpatine says Vader should take the young Skywalker to see Tor Valum—the Sith master who taught Palpatine everything he knows. Throughout Duel Of The Fates, various characters attempt to reach Kylo Ren and bring Ben Solo back into the light. General Leia remains skeptical, but Rey believes that anyone can change; she tells Finn that his actions proved this.

Meanwhile, Kylo tracks down Tor Valum, who turns out to be a 7,000-year-old (extremely Adam Driver voice) ghoul described as “Lovecraftian” in appearance—a note that should make everyone shriek with grief at the lost possibility of something so strawberry floating cool. Anyhow, Kylo Ren trains with Tor Valum, confronts a Darth Vader phantom, loses, and stomps and broods his way over to Rey. There’s also a cool bit somewhere in there where the holocron wounds Kylo’s face, which is repaired with smelted Mandalorian armor.

As many fans speculated/hoped, this iteration of Episode IX would have seen Rey and Kylo working from similar motives, with both characters fighting against the binary ideologies that have governed their world for ages. Ultimately, unlike Rise, Rey’s attempts to coax Ben Solo out of his Kylo Ren angst helmet fail, and he is “extinguished”—but not before revealing that he killed Rey’s parents (who were, indeed, “nobodies”) on Snoke’s orders.

There are several other key points, including Chewbacca flying an X-Wing, the Resistance gang stealing a Star Destroyer, and a droid described as being similar in appearance to Darth Maul (again, cool). Of course, Trevorrow’s movie might not have been “good” by whatever metric you use (this is the same auteur behind The Book Of Henry, after all), but there are some great ideas and concepts here, including the aforementioned ancient Lovecraftian Sith ghoul whose name sounds like a Norwegian black metal album.

As of now, the identity of the script leaker remains unknown, but it probably wouldn’t take a space detective to figure it out.


https://news.avclub.com/turns-out-colin ... 1841002112

I think there's room for a story in this mold to be told in future Star Wars films, but I think Abrams' film is very good and wraps up the story quite satisfactorily.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Godzilla » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:41 am


Wish my image sig would work
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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Victor Mildew » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:14 am

Doesn't seem much better than what we got really.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Moggy » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:24 am

Victor Mistletoe wrote:Doesn't seem much better than what we got really.


Yeah it doesn't sound any better. Instead of bring back Palpy they bring back Palpy, Vader and introduce an ANCIENT Sith that nobody knew about.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Frank » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:29 am

At least they refer to the holocron as a holocron and don't make it some stupid sith satnav

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by DarkRula » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:43 am

A few good ideas, others... Well, unless somewhere in his training Palpatine had to visit this Tor Valum while under Plagueis, I don't see how you could say that he taught Palpatine everything he knows - and even that's a stretch unless Tor Valum somehow is Plagueis.

It does seem more coherent, but I'm sure the same could have been said of any story leak about Rise of Skywalker if worded right.

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PostRe: **Spoilers** Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Discussion thread **Spoilers**
by Jenuall » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:58 am

Still sounds crap. A different brand of crap perhaps but I still struggle to see how a compelling and satisfying conclusion could have be developed from that script.

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