Saw this a few days ago, and have spent the time since catching up on the thread.
Thought the film was enjoyable, given that it basically embraced its [whatever the opposite of ambition is] right from the first line of the crawl. Within the boundaries of cinema that the movie set itself right from the outset, it's a pleasant enough ride that warrants one viewing. But if you give any thought whatsoever to its concepts one quickly realises that the film is an absolute trainwreck artistically and culturally, and it is so much poorer both in concept and execution than the film that preceded it.
Ignoring the inconsistencies and flaws and plotholes within the category of "space science" entirely (because all the SW films have these) and judging the movie solely on, well, merit... it has none. It's a childish, dickish thesis on why JJ Abrams was right by JJ Abrams, which is a pretty petty move considering this was never intended to be his film, let alone his trilogy.
Those that have commented so far in this thread that TLJ did as much "retconning" as TROS... what are you smoking?
The Last Jedi took plot points from TFA and led them in unexpected directions, yes - but that isn't the same as reversing them. Whereas TROS is
only about reversing the themes of TLJ, to an embarrassing extent:
TLJ: Let the past die.
TROS: Turns out the past was alive all along.
TLJ: Luke has learnt that failure is the strongest teacher.
TROS: Apart from bloodline force magic.
TLJ: Your parents were no-one.
TROS: And by no-one, we mean the children of the most infamous villain of all history.
TLJ: Here's a new, diverse character.
TROS: No.
TLJ: Here are some characters flirting with other characters of differing diversity.
TROS: I said NO.
TLJ: The force doesn't belong to the Jedi, it belongs to anyone.
TROS: As long as they're related to a significant character from the old movies.
TLJ: Kylo Ren killed his master; he's the Supreme Leader now.
TROS: No, here is his new master, who was master of his old master. Masters matter.
TROS: There are only ever two Sith.
TROS: And don't forget about the Knights of Ren.
TROS: Plus all the Sith that live on the secret giant Sith planet. Also it's a religion, language, culture and society too.
Old films: There can only ever be two: master, and apprentice.
TLJ: Wait, WTF?
TLJ: The heroes' cunning plan to save the day didn't work out... because that's what life is like sometimes.
TROS: Every single plan by the heroes' works out exactly as planned every time, because that's what my movies are like always.
TLJ: Sometimes, people are simply beyond redemption.
TROS: Hey look guys, Weasley was on our side all along!
TLJ: Everyone in this room is the last of the Resistance.
TROS: Plus JJ's mates.
TLJ: Here's Benicio del Toro.
TROS: Here's Charlie from Lost!
TLJ: We're not just going to make the film the loudest, worst "fans" want, because they already have that film and creating another would be entirely predictable.
TROS: Stay out of sight, Rose, the "fans" don't like you. Cash earned from pandering to toxicity is still cash!
TLJ: War might kill but it's endlessly profitable.
TROS: And there's nothing wrong with indulging awful concepts for profit!
Hime wrote:The cognitive dissonance of TLJ fans and the subsequent internet discussions has definitely been the most interesting thing about this saga
What I find interesting is throughout this thread you've insisted that TLJ is somehow the poorer film yet not given any reasoning? But despite its litany of flaws you defend TROS, which to any objective observer, is the very definition of cognitive dissonance.