Standing accused of accessory to the murder of 300,000 people

The man known as the "bookkeeper of Auschwitz" has asked for forgiveness on the opening day of his trial in Germany.

Oskar Groening, 93, stands accused of being an accessory to the murder of 300,000 people at the Nazi death camp during the Second World War.

Addressing the courtroom, which is packed with Holocaust survivors and victims' relatives, Groening acknowledged he knew about the killings.

"For me there's no question that I share moral guilt ... I ask for forgiveness," he said.

He has spoken openly about his time working at Auschwitz in the past in order, he says, to counter Holocaust denial.

Falsey wrote:Id really love to put Bookkeeper of Auschwitz on my CV

Roles and responsibilities: the timely processing and euthanasia of the lesser race of man, cleaning, general admin, microsoft word and excel

Lagamorph wrote:I thought Poser himself was actually being accused with the way the thread title is worded.

Errkal wrote:Being tried for crimes against humanity, quick to GRcade!

captain red dog wrote:It sounds to me like he had no real involvement. Just working at Auschwitz doesn't mean he can be deemed guilty of the crimes committed there. Where would you draw the line, the administration staff, people who delivered supplies and materials?

Corazon de Leon wrote:

captain red dog wrote:It sounds to me like he had no real involvement. Just working at Auschwitz doesn't mean he can be deemed guilty of the crimes committed there. Where would you draw the line, the administration staff, people who delivered supplies and materials?

All accessories to mass murder, yes. They helped to efficiently process and evaporate almost an entire race of people, just because they weren't shooting them or throwing them into the fire or pressing the gas button in the showers personally, doesn't make them any less guilty of aiding in the holocaust.

Corazon de Leon wrote:

captain red dog wrote:It sounds to me like he had no real involvement. Just working at Auschwitz doesn't mean he can be deemed guilty of the crimes committed there. Where would you draw the line, the administration staff, people who delivered supplies and materials?

All accessories to mass murder, yes. They helped to efficiently process and evaporate almost an entire race of people, just because they weren't shooting them or throwing them into the fire or pressing the gas button in the showers personally, doesn't make them any less guilty of aiding in the holocaust.

captain red dog wrote:It sounds to me like he had no real involvement. Just working at Auschwitz doesn't mean he can be deemed guilty of the crimes committed there. Where would you draw the line, the administration staff, people who delivered supplies and materials?

A 93-year-old former Nazi SS guard, known as the "Bookkeeper of Auschwitz", has admitted he is "morally" guilty.

Oskar Groening spoke at the beginning of his trial for being an accessory to the murder of at least 300,000 Jews at the concentration camp.
He described his role of counting money confiscated from new arrivals and said he witnessed mass killings, but denied any direct role in the genocide.
If found guilty he could face three to 15 years in prison.

Addressing the judges, Mr Groening also said: "I ask for forgiveness. I share morally in the guilt but whether I am guilty under criminal law, you will have to decide.''

Oskar Groening looked frail as he entered the courtroom leaning on a walking frame. But his voice was strong and steady as he spoke for nearly an hour.
Four survivors from the notorious death camp faced him across the room. Much of his testimony described his attempts to achieve his ambition of being an SS "executive", to work as a bookkeeper for the Nazis.

But there were haunting moments too; for a little while we saw the horrors of Auschwitz through his eyes.

The survivors watched him impassively but their younger relatives shook their heads in disbelief as he recounted his arrival at the camp as a young SS guard. He'd been plied with vodka by officers there, he said.

He even described the vodka bottles. As they drank the officers told him that the camp was for deported Jews. That those Jewish prisoners would be killed and disposed of.

Later, he pulled out a water bottle: "I'll drink from it like I drank from those vodka bottles in Auschwitz."

The nonagenarian only came to the attention of prosecutors following a decision to speak out against Holocaust deniers.

"I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria," he told the BBC in the 2005 documentary Auschwitz: the Nazis and the "Final Solution".

"I was on the ramp when the selections [for the gas chambers] took place."

He spoke of witnessing an SS soldier murdering a baby, and how the treatment of the prisoners had "horrified" him.

But he said that at the time he believed that killing Jews - including children - was the "right" thing to do.

"We were convinced by our world view that we had been betrayed... and that there was a great conspiracy of the Jews against us."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32392594

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32336353

Qikz wrote:

Corazon de Leon wrote:

captain red dog wrote:It sounds to me like he had no real involvement. Just working at Auschwitz doesn't mean he can be deemed guilty of the crimes committed there. Where would you draw the line, the administration staff, people who delivered supplies and materials?

All accessories to mass murder, yes. They helped to efficiently process and evaporate almost an entire race of people, just because they weren't shooting them or throwing them into the fire or pressing the gas button in the showers personally, doesn't make them any less guilty of aiding in the holocaust.

I don't personally believe someone who was most likely forced to be the bookkeeper at Auschwitz should be held accountable for anything that happened there. What exactly was he supposed to do to stop what went on? Grab a gun by himself and take on the SS?

If we're prosecuting the workers of Auschwitz for being accesory to murder, then should we also prosecute the Jewish Sonderkommando who worked the crematoriums?

Mr Groening was born in 1921 in Lower Saxony in Germany, and his mother died when he was four, Germany's Der Spiegel magazine reports.
His father, a proud nationalist, joined the Stahlhelm paramilitary group after Germany's defeat in World War One. His anger at how Germany had been treated under the Treaty of Versailles increased when his textile business went bankrupt in 1929.

The young Groening joined the Stahlhelm Youth in the early 1930s, and then the Hitler Youth. He later spoke of taking part in the Nazi burning of books written by Jews and others deemed "degenerate".


British historian Laurence Rees says Mr Groening began training as a bank clerk at 17, but after war was declared, he decided he wanted to follow in his grandfathers' footsteps and join an "elite" unit in the German army.

He signed up to the Waffen SS and arrived in Auschwitz in 1942.

For about two years, Mr Groening allegedly counted money taken from the luggage of murdered Jews and sent it back to SS headquarters in Berlin. He also supervised luggage of prisoners being transported to the camp.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32336353

Lucien wrote:And on top of that - let's say in a fifty years everyone is vegetarian. Should people who aren't vegetarian now, when they could be, be accused of assisting in mass murder of animals?

Dan. wrote:

Lucien wrote:And on top of that - let's say in a fifty years everyone is vegetarian. Should people who aren't vegetarian now, when they could be, be accused of assisting in mass murder of animals?

Did you really just equate genocide to eating meat?

Moggy wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Corazon de Leon wrote:

captain red dog wrote:It sounds to me like he had no real involvement. Just working at Auschwitz doesn't mean he can be deemed guilty of the crimes committed there. Where would you draw the line, the administration staff, people who delivered supplies and materials?

All accessories to mass murder, yes. They helped to efficiently process and evaporate almost an entire race of people, just because they weren't shooting them or throwing them into the fire or pressing the gas button in the showers personally, doesn't make them any less guilty of aiding in the holocaust.

I don't personally believe someone who was most likely forced to be the bookkeeper at Auschwitz should be held accountable for anything that happened there. What exactly was he supposed to do to stop what went on? Grab a gun by himself and take on the SS?

If we're prosecuting the workers of Auschwitz for being accesory to murder, then should we also prosecute the Jewish Sonderkommando who worked the crematoriums?

He wasn't forced, he joined the SS and he knew what was going on.

Mr Groening was born in 1921 in Lower Saxony in Germany, and his mother died when he was four, Germany's Der Spiegel magazine reports.
His father, a proud nationalist, joined the Stahlhelm paramilitary group after Germany's defeat in World War One. His anger at how Germany had been treated under the Treaty of Versailles increased when his textile business went bankrupt in 1929.

The young Groening joined the Stahlhelm Youth in the early 1930s, and then the Hitler Youth. He later spoke of taking part in the Nazi burning of books written by Jews and others deemed "degenerate".


British historian Laurence Rees says Mr Groening began training as a bank clerk at 17, but after war was declared, he decided he wanted to follow in his grandfathers' footsteps and join an "elite" unit in the German army.

He signed up to the Waffen SS and arrived in Auschwitz in 1942.

For about two years, Mr Groening allegedly counted money taken from the luggage of murdered Jews and sent it back to SS headquarters in Berlin. He also supervised luggage of prisoners being transported to the camp.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32336353