Subtitles - On or Off

On for many of the reasons already stated:

- Counter bad sound mixing
- Easier to follow mid-gameplay
- Miss less dialogue
- Better replicates being able to focus on a single conversation when multiple are playing out in the vicinity
- Much quicker to read dialogue and advance than wait for VA to play out, especially in games where the dialogue is just between portraits or talking heads with a dialogue box
- Sometimes I will be playing with the sound low or on mute entirely (especially handheld)

Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

I will skip as much voice acting as possible if subtitles are available.

Nolan North - "Am I a joke to you?"

Victor Mildew wrote:Nolan North - "Am I

Come on hurry up.

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

I completely get this, but I'd counter that the majority of games just aren't this well designed. The number of times I've had multiple voice lines play over each other because one is from the story mission that you're currently playing but you walk past another quest giver or something like that, or the character you're supposed to be talking to has ran off on some buggy pathing, or gets their scripted dialogue interrupted by some emergent occurence. It's covering for issues that would be better fixed in these cases, but subtitles have saved me from countless frustrations like these. It doesn't have to be a "bug" either, many games both want you to be walking with a specific character to listen to their dialogue, but have also scattered collectibles/loot around, and having subtitles on smooths that contention somewhat.

In terms of immersion with crowded, loud places, I don't think there is any better alternative to giving the player subtitles. If multiple conversations are playing out then its realistic to be able to focus on one and listen to it specifically, but this isn't really possible from a game's audio (not without very good directional audio at least, and that requires playing with headphones or very specific audio setups). The background noise can be made quieter so the dialogue you are supposed to be listening to stands out, but that itself can be immersion breaking and doesn't let the player switch their focus at will like choosing to read different subtitles does.

OrangeRKN wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

I completely get this, but I'd counter that the majority of games just aren't this well designed. The number of times I've had multiple voice lines play over each other because one is from the story mission that you're currently playing but you walk past another quest giver or something like that, or the character you're supposed to be talking to has ran off on some buggy pathing, or gets their scripted dialogue interrupted by some emergent occurence. It's covering for issues that would be better fixed in these cases, but subtitles have saved me from countless frustrations like these. It doesn't have to be a "bug" either, many games both want you to be walking with a specific character to listen to their dialogue, but have also scattered collectibles/loot around, and having subtitles on smooths that contention somewhat.

In terms of immersion with crowded, loud places, I don't think there is any better alternative to giving the player subtitles. If multiple conversations are playing out then its realistic to be able to focus on one and listen to it specifically, but this isn't really possible from a game's audio (not without very good directional audio at least, and that requires playing with headphones or very specific audio setups). The background noise can be made quieter so the dialogue you are supposed to be listening to stands out, but that itself can be immersion breaking and doesn't let the player switch their focus at will like choosing to read different subtitles does.

Oh it would absolutely be a challenge to implement, and I don't hold out a hope that anyone would bother with it, but it feels like something that would be a nice option IMO.

Like I said in the other thread it feels like subs are being used as a bandage to smooth over other issues around either design or engineering of the game. That's fine to an extent, a cheap solution is better than nothing, but it's still disappointing.

Regarding multiple characters talking over one another presumably this causes an issue with subtitles as well - at least for games that just stick one set of subs at the bottom of the screen? Those where speech bubbles appear near the character who is talking will probably be okay I imagine.

The subtitles in banjo kazooie killed the immersion for me

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

Also, in RPG's, the subtitiles should disappear faster if you dont put points in inteligence.

Jenuall wrote:Regarding multiple characters talking over one another presumably this causes an issue with subtitles as well - at least for games that just stick one set of subs at the bottom of the screen? Those where speech bubbles appear near the character who is talking will probably be okay I imagine.

Lots of the time yes, but you can have stacked subtitles, or even if they are replaced because it is quicker to read subtitles you might have been able to read it in time anyway even if the VA is being obscured or cut-off or whatever. It definitely helps having subtitles when you get issues like that, but it's of course not a perfect solution.

kazanova_Frankenstein wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

Also, in RPG's, the subtitiles should disappear faster if you dont put points in inteligence.

Was it Nintendo that released a game where changing the audio settings / ability to use subtitles was locked behind an item you get part way through the storyline?

Cuttooth wrote:

kazanova_Frankenstein wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

Also, in RPG's, the subtitiles should disappear faster if you dont put points in inteligence.

Was it Nintendo that released a game where changing the audio settings / ability to use subtitles was locked behind an item you get part way through the storyline?

I certainly wouldn't be suprised.

Cuttooth wrote:

kazanova_Frankenstein wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

Also, in RPG's, the subtitiles should disappear faster if you dont put points in inteligence.

Was it Nintendo that released a game where changing the audio settings / ability to use subtitles was locked behind an item you get part way through the storyline?

Sound controls in Sword/Shield are locked behind an item you get off a random, non-essential NPC

I'm quite surprised I'm the first to vote "required".

I have an auditory memory problem where I forget what's just been said and so get large gaps in dialogue and story but if I read and listen at the same time I am more likely to get the dialogue and you generally can't rewind a video game (not that I do that because it's too dissonant but point still stands); the subtitles remain on screen that little much longer so that I can read the dialogue even after the character might have stopped speaking. I also get distracted the moment someone speaks but the subtitles will be there even a fraction of a second longer I can get the gist of what they said, and I gave up a long, long time ago obsessing over hearing or reading everything in a story, especially when there are no subs so I just have to do without.

Often implemented so poorly though, for example Deus Ex Mankind Divided you just get a massive wall of text on the screen at time. That ridiculously long intro sequence I am sure was ired by a lot of people but for me it was a

I'm not deaf, I have fantastic hearing, I just forget/miss what I hear, and it's still an accessibility issue for a lot of people.

Tomous wrote:

Cuttooth wrote:

kazanova_Frankenstein wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

Also, in RPG's, the subtitiles should disappear faster if you dont put points in inteligence.

Was it Nintendo that released a game where changing the audio settings / ability to use subtitles was locked behind an item you get part way through the storyline?

Sound controls in Sword/Shield are locked behind an item you get off a random, non-essential NPC

That's even worse than I thought! strawberry floating hell Nintendo really does not want to get on the accessibility train.

Cuttooth wrote:

Tomous wrote:

Cuttooth wrote:

kazanova_Frankenstein wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Regarding this "characters walking off and missing their dialog" thing as a factor in using subtititles I think there should be an option for subs to be more immersive (in addition to a more basic 'always on' option)

Subtitles should represent the actual hearing capacity of the player character, they shouldn't be a like a superpower in the game. If I can't hear the character then I shouldn't be able to read their dialog either. They could do something with reducing the size of on-screen text or something similar to represent the characters dialog becoming fainter etc.

Also, in RPG's, the subtitiles should disappear faster if you dont put points in inteligence.

Was it Nintendo that released a game where changing the audio settings / ability to use subtitles was locked behind an item you get part way through the storyline?

Sound controls in Sword/Shield are locked behind an item you get off a random, non-essential NPC

That's even worse than I thought! strawberry floating hell Nintendo really does not want to get on the accessibility train.

The item was a pair of earphones I believe

On whenever possible, I’m HOH.
Frank, Rockstar FINALLY sorted that intro movie sub issue out with RDR2.
Jenuall, that thing you mentioned about subtitles being attracted to the listening ability of the player? That does actually happen sometimes, it’s really cool I think. Fairly sure TLoU2 does it.

TLOU2 has immersive subtitles as an option, so if you turn away from a character, subtitles will appear.

The Sword and Shield item is absolutely awful for accessibility and even general usability but I personally appreciate it for being insane and memorable

Nintendo really should change their approach to accessibility and options.

I generally keep them on so I don't miss out any of the dialogue. It's a pain in the hole if you miss something; as Gecko says, you generally can't rewind. So, it's either do the section again or look up on YouTube.