GRcade

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:18 am**

Also, 3D All-Stars has leaked onto the internet and all 3 games are running on emulators.

I wonder if this means more collections coming?

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:23 am**

I'd imagine Metroid Prime Trilogy is a certainty. I'd also expected Zelda OTO, MM, WW Pack too. But it's Nintendo so who knows.

I'd be happy to pay for N64 games on the switch.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:27 am**

OrangeRKN wrote:You're right that SMB is more iconic than it is actually good looking from a pure aesthetic standpoint, especially with the almost proto-pixel art character and enemy sprites, but SMB's great visual strength is in it's simplicity. The odd cloud and bush aside (and it's the same sprite anyway!), there are no non-course elements causing any visual distraction in the game. The game is one obstacle course after another, and that's exactly what it looks like it is. You can see a screen of SMB and know within milliseconds exactly where to go and what to do which makes it superbly reactable and playable as a platformer. Every element is well defined and recognisable. I could find you examples of games with busy screens and background elements that obscure the playable and distract the player, and all of these I would probably say look worse because the visuals end up detracting from the gameplay. Of course there are many games that are well designed and do complex visuals well so they don't suffer that problem (or even use visual "confusion" to their advantage!) but that's not what SMB does - SMB doesn't run into those problems by virtue of avoiding them almost entirely. The all-stars version I think compromises itself for introducing a business to the screens with no discernible advantage to doing so, and that's partly why the original still remains as iconic as it. You can put that opening 1-1 block layout in any game with any variety of art style and superfluous background elements and it will still recognisably be 1-1, because the visuals and the level design of SMB are one and the same.

Oh for sure. I’ve been dipping a woolly toe into Unravel 2 recently and its busy backgrounds, while objectively attractive (or as objective as you can get when talking about visuals anyway - I don’t actually like them because they have no art style), make the platforming harder. They get in the way of the gameplay where SMB1’s enhances it. That just means that Unravel 2 should come in for criticism, not that SMB1 in this day and age should be let off. As you say, both are possible, and we both know a great platformer that pulls that off.

As for the All-Stars remake of SMB1, maybe it does sacrifice some of that visual immediacy, but from what I’ve seen it also doesn’t look like hot garbage these days - or not as much. And at least it feels like Nintendo were trying to do something interesting with it, like some effort went in rather than taking the ‘history piece’ route; or, if one were feeling less kind, the ‘quick buck’ route.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:21 pm**

Tomous wrote:Also, 3D All-Stars has leaked onto the internet and all 3 games are running on emulators.

I wonder if this means more collections coming?

I bet they go that route as opposed to having N64 games and beyond on the Nintendo Online service. So release some collection packs and charge fully retail prices rather than giving them away as part of NSO subs

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:28 pm**

Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Jenuall wrote:I get what you are saying but at the same time the only other time Nintendo have released a compendium of older Mario titles, the only other time they invoked the "All Stars" name we got ... graphically remastered versions of all the games it contained!

Yeah, and they looked worse

Wrong YET AGAIN

There's almost no contest. The NES version is cleaner, bolder, more readable and more consistent, while the SNES version appears overly busy, overly shaded and loses the cartoon theatre aesthetic. SMB3 is one of the best looking NES games and still looks great today, which is testament to its visuals. The all-stars version however looks like Super Mario World of all things

The SNES version is cuter! It looks soft and fluffy.

There's a reason Mario Maker chose to use the NES graphical style and not the All-Stars one for SMB3 - it's better!

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:36 pm**

Jenuall wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:There's almost no contest. The NES version is cleaner, bolder, more readable and more consistent, while the SNES version appears overly busy, overly shaded and loses the cartoon theatre aesthetic. SMB3 is one of the best looking NES games and still looks great today, which is testament to its visuals. The all-stars version however looks like Super Mario World of all things

The SNES version is cuter! It looks soft and fluffy.

There's a reason Mario Maker chose to use the NES graphical style and not the All-Stars one for SMB3 - it's better!

But All-Stars is bright and colourful! It looks kind of happy and squishy! :wub:

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:51 pm**

i really need to decided one way or the other if i should get this or not

preferably before the pre order dispatches

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:14 pm**

Tomous wrote:Also, 3D All-Stars has leaked onto the internet and all 3 games are running on emulators.

I wonder if this means more collections coming?

I seriously hope these games don't run like gooseberry fool. Galaxy especially.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:29 pm**

Karl_ wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:There's almost no contest. The NES version is cleaner, bolder, more readable and more consistent, while the SNES version appears overly busy, overly shaded and loses the cartoon theatre aesthetic. SMB3 is one of the best looking NES games and still looks great today, which is testament to its visuals. The all-stars version however looks like Super Mario World of all things

The SNES version is cuter! It looks soft and fluffy.

There's a reason Mario Maker chose to use the NES graphical style and not the All-Stars one for SMB3 - it's better!

But All-Stars is bright and colourful! It looks kind of happy and squishy!

I guess the real point-of-note is that the original and all-stars versions are stylistically different. It's not just an "upgrade", it's a stylistic shift, so it's no surprise that results in differing opinions! The all-stars version is softer, but I think that makes it look worse.

To bring it back to Mario 64, while the art style could be faithfully reproduced at higher resolutions or whatever, I think for better or worse low-poly, despite arising as a technical limitation, is itself a visual style and so even the most faithful remaster wouldn't necessarily look objectively better. I'd point at Ocarina of Time 3D as an example although even there I think the style does shift a little even ignoring the polygon count!

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:35 pm**

Squinty wrote:
Tomous wrote:Also, 3D All-Stars has leaked onto the internet and all 3 games are running on emulators.

I wonder if this means more collections coming?

I seriously hope these games don't run like gooseberry fool. Galaxy especially.

Going by what seems to be coming out about this, it seems NERD actually put quite a bit of effort into these new emulators. The games should run great by all accounts

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:47 pm**

OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:There's almost no contest. The NES version is cleaner, bolder, more readable and more consistent, while the SNES version appears overly busy, overly shaded and loses the cartoon theatre aesthetic. SMB3 is one of the best looking NES games and still looks great today, which is testament to its visuals. The all-stars version however looks like Super Mario World of all things

The SNES version is cuter! It looks soft and fluffy.

There's a reason Mario Maker chose to use the NES graphical style and not the All-Stars one for SMB3 - it's better!

But All-Stars is bright and colourful! It looks kind of happy and squishy!

I guess the real point-of-note is that the original and all-stars versions are stylistically different. It's not just an "upgrade", it's a stylistic shift, so it's no surprise that results in differing opinions! The all-stars version is softer, but I think that makes it look worse.

To bring it back to Mario 64, while the art style could be faithfully reproduced at higher resolutions or whatever, I think for better or worse low-poly, despite arising as a technical limitation, is itself a visual style and so even the most faithful remaster wouldn't necessarily look objectively better. I'd point at Ocarina of Time 3D as an example although even there I think the style does shift a little even ignoring the polygon count!

Sure. I actually do 100% see what you mean. I think really, deep down, I prefer All Stars solely due to nostalgia - it was one of my first SNES games and my introduction to Mario.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:14 pm**

Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
OrangeRKN wrote:There's almost no contest. The NES version is cleaner, bolder, more readable and more consistent, while the SNES version appears overly busy, overly shaded and loses the cartoon theatre aesthetic. SMB3 is one of the best looking NES games and still looks great today, which is testament to its visuals. The all-stars version however looks like Super Mario World of all things

The SNES version is cuter! It looks soft and fluffy.

There's a reason Mario Maker chose to use the NES graphical style and not the All-Stars one for SMB3 - it's better!

But All-Stars is bright and colourful! It looks kind of happy and squishy!

I guess the real point-of-note is that the original and all-stars versions are stylistically different. It's not just an "upgrade", it's a stylistic shift, so it's no surprise that results in differing opinions! The all-stars version is softer, but I think that makes it look worse.

To bring it back to Mario 64, while the art style could be faithfully reproduced at higher resolutions or whatever, I think for better or worse low-poly, despite arising as a technical limitation, is itself a visual style and so even the most faithful remaster wouldn't necessarily look objectively better. I'd point at Ocarina of Time 3D as an example although even there I think the style does shift a little even ignoring the polygon count!

Sure. I actually do 100% see what you mean. I think really, deep down, I prefer All Stars solely due to nostalgia - it was one of my first SNES games and my introduction to Mario.

Yeah I don't think I would necessarily want a high poly/definition remake of Mario 64 in the same way that something like Crash/Spyro have been updated - the chunky look of the original is a large part of the charm. But there are things that they could have done which would have been beneficial but still remained faithful to the old visuals: widescreen, better draw distance for characters and sprites, 60fps etc. all would have been nice and I don't think would have harmed the aesthetics or made it feel inauthentic

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:35 pm**

I remember the All Stars remaster of SMB3. It was quite a big deal at the time as SMB3 was considered by many as the best game of all time back then (its still one of the greatest now). But it had just been superseded by Mario World in that respect so the remaster was a nice little upgrade to make the collection a real killer app.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:34 pm**

Get All-Stars SMB3 the strawberry float out of my eyes. Vile.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:53 pm**

Minimal work being put into this is a bit of a shame, but I guess the games didn't really need that much work in the first place. Cleaner textures and updated models is prob all I would have wanted.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:31 pm**

If it's made with good solid n64, cube and wii emulators the possibilities are endless,. Pokemon coliseum and gale of darkness as a set for an example, hardly anyone seems to have played gale. Nintendo could use this to plug all the holes in there release schedule, if they should or not is the question.

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:30 pm**

i decided to cancel, just not feeling it atm

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:43 pm**

The Watching Artist wrote:Remember how amazing SM64 was? (unless you played Banjo first )

Banjo-Kazooie squad hype! :toot:

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 pm**

shy guy 64 wrote:i decided to cancel, just not feeling it atm

Good man

Posted: **Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:26 pm**

kerr9000 wrote: Pokemon coliseum and gale of darkness as a set for an example,

I would be all over that in a second from it's announcement. Experiencing those two on a handheld, and with updated resolution? Absolute dream come true.

GRcade

Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Out Now | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21

Re: Super Mario 3D All-Stars | Nintendo Switch | Launches 18/09/20 | Only Available for Purchase until 31/03/21