Page 2 of 9
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:02 am
by Tafdolphin
Sorry
Sometimes it just feels like every post (not just from me! From everyone) can be seen as something to take issue with. I appreciate that's not the case here though.
Aaaaanyway. Bethesda have been gooseberry fool for ages the next game needs to be good etc etc
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:19 am
by Venom
Tafdolphin wrote:They need a complete overhaul of both their systems and storytelling.
Fallout 4 was a soulless mess, the definition of dumbing down a concept until it becomes so unrecognizable from where it began it may as well be something else. 76 was even worse by all standards. Games like the Witcher, Disco Elysium and even The Outer Wilds (not Worlds) have shown what you can do with a modern RPG, but old leaders like Bethesda and BioWare are starting to lag behind.
Imrahil wrote:I accept all the individual criticisms of Skyrim - inferior looking engine compared to others, below-par writing, etc - yet I had a much better experience with that game than any open-world game since, even Witcher3. (When it comes to getting fully embedded in an immersive fantasy world of adventure).
There's just something about the TES games; they throw together all the ingredients and magic happens. Somehow.
When I first played Oblivion is just seemed so soulless walking around Imperial City, it actually reminded me of an old Amiga RPG I had, but then it drew me in! Likewise with Skyrim, there is something about the sheer expanse of it. A massive part of it is Jeremy Soule's music which is astounding for setting mood but also is endlessly listenable without grating. But yes, playing Skyrim today with the new game shine faded is very much fetch quests, or A to B type questing. I haven't played Witcher 3 so would like to see how RPGs have developed. I've wanted to see characters that react to you differently depending on your past interactions with them and the larger world changed by your decisions. I'm eager to try out a few more games before TES VI is released, I reckon I've got a bit of time.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:21 am
by OrangeRKN
Imrahil wrote:I accept all the individual criticisms of Skyrim - inferior looking engine compared to others, below-par writing, etc - yet I had a much better experience with that game than any open-world game since, even Witcher3. (When it comes to getting fully embedded in an immersive fantasy world of adventure).
There's just something about the TES games; they throw together all the ingredients and magic happens. Somehow.
Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim have all been some of my fondest ever gaming memories.
I think it's likely because they are roleplaying sandboxes. You create your own character, the open world is properly open and not gated by story progression, and you can pretty much do what you want. The Witcher in contrast, while it has branching choices, is still a pre-defined story about the existing character Geralt. They are different kinds of game. I can't actually think of any like-for-like competitors to The Elder Scrolls.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:23 am
by Tafdolphin
It's unfortunate that Jeremy Soule is a rapist.
I don't mention this as a gotcha, more that I can't imagine he'll be working on the new games.
I'd really recommend the new Wasteland actually. It's a great example of the gameworld reacting to your decisions while making it feel natural and deserved. Witcher doesn't really do this, but that game's strength really is the writing. Every single quest, be it a main story example or a measly sidequest, is interesting and never quite what you think when you accept it. Minus the combat, which is passable at best, it takes the ideas created and refined by Bioware and Bethesda and outdoes them in every way imaginable.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:24 am
by Lagamorph
Tafdolphin wrote:Knoyleo wrote:Tafdolphin wrote:Well, I didn't actually refer to it as an RPG. It's a story driven game that dealt with narrative in a unique way and it's more about this, and how that will/should inform the way games grapple with the concept going forward, that I was referring to.
Having a story be led by po-face NPCs doling out quests with the emotion of a boiled mussel isn't the way to go anymore.
That's actually a really good example. Vague and mysterious they may be, but the NPCs in Fromsoft games serve a purpose more than mere questgivers. They're part of, if you'll excuse the extreme strawberry floating pretentiousness, the narrative tapestry of those games. Each game is a mystery slowly unraveled through various means, one of which is the NPCs. They tell a story beyond the short monologues they spout, and they're woven in so tightly with the rest of the story that they become characters through means other than clicking through endless dialogue options
Fromsoft are another studio that have furthered what it means to be an RPG and there are definitely things Bethesda should/could learn from them.
Nobody in the RPG business, or game business in general, should be taking lessons from FromSoft
Unless it's a lesson on what not to do anyway.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:26 am
by Rubix
Tafdolphin wrote:aaaanyway. Bethesda have been gooseberry fool for ages the next game needs to be good etc etc
As a developer since Skyrim for sure. But as a publisher they have been good
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:27 am
by Tafdolphin
Lagamorph wrote:Nobody in the RPG business, or game business in general, should be taking lessons from FromSoft
good lord
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:31 am
by gaminglegend
Photek wrote:Errkal wrote:Rubix wrote:Photek wrote:Rubix wrote:Xbox haven't stated that it will be Xbox only. Seems they will still sell on PS5 and take a cut.
No one knows if it will be on PS5. I'm starting to think it won't be, I get MS will want some money back but with Sony timing Death Loop and that Tokyo game, MS might keep Elders Scrolls 6 back for a year or entirely.
How much Skyrim sold they would be silly not to get this game out as much as possible. I really think this will still come to PS5, maybe not the same time but it will.
Microsoft don’t need exclusive stuff when they give “their people” that game via game pass. Game pass is the new “exclusive” for Microsoft. The sell is “come to us and you just get all this with a small sub, or go there and pay for everything”
True, but just saying no one knows if it's coming to PS5 or not...
The smart money is it will be. Just like Minecraft is cross platform.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:31 am
by Memento Mori
Tafdolphin wrote:Lagamorph wrote:Nobody in the RPG business, or game business in general, should be taking lessons from FromSoft
good lord
#Hottake
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:32 am
by Photek
gaminglegend wrote:Photek wrote:Errkal wrote:Rubix wrote:Photek wrote:Rubix wrote:Xbox haven't stated that it will be Xbox only. Seems they will still sell on PS5 and take a cut.
No one knows if it will be on PS5. I'm starting to think it won't be, I get MS will want some money back but with Sony timing Death Loop and that Tokyo game, MS might keep Elders Scrolls 6 back for a year or entirely.
How much Skyrim sold they would be silly not to get this game out as much as possible. I really think this will still come to PS5, maybe not the same time but it will.
Microsoft don’t need exclusive stuff when they give “their people” that game via game pass. Game pass is the new “exclusive” for Microsoft. The sell is “come to us and you just get all this with a small sub, or go there and pay for everything”
True, but just saying no one knows if it's coming to PS5 or not...
The smart money is it will be. Just like Minecraft is cross platform.
Minecraft was already out on everything when they bought Mojang though.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:34 am
by Errkal
gaminglegend wrote:Photek wrote:Errkal wrote:Rubix wrote:Photek wrote:Rubix wrote:Xbox haven't stated that it will be Xbox only. Seems they will still sell on PS5 and take a cut.
No one knows if it will be on PS5. I'm starting to think it won't be, I get MS will want some money back but with Sony timing Death Loop and that Tokyo game, MS might keep Elders Scrolls 6 back for a year or entirely.
How much Skyrim sold they would be silly not to get this game out as much as possible. I really think this will still come to PS5, maybe not the same time but it will.
Microsoft don’t need exclusive stuff when they give “their people” that game via game pass. Game pass is the new “exclusive” for Microsoft. The sell is “come to us and you just get all this with a small sub, or go there and pay for everything”
True, but just saying no one knows if it's coming to PS5 or not...
The smart money is it will be. Just like Minecraft is cross platform.
Yup, I would be extremely surprised if they took it off other platforms they have other studios that they sell across platform so why not this.
They have Gamepass that's a massive draw for people so they don't need exclusivity deals.
You need an exclusivity deal if the alternative is the game is 60 on both platforms, but game pass changes that drastically, now it's well you can pay 60 quid for it, or you can just have it.
They need to use exclusivity to tie people in, it's an old fashioned way to do things
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:37 am
by OrangeRKN
I'm not a big fan of world building through item descriptions. At that point I'd rather just read a wiki and not play the game (which seems to be the experience of Dark Souls anyway).
I definitely don't find the games immersive. They are much less like living worlds full of real characters and more like clockwork populated by ghosts. You couldn't make a sandbox fantasy RPG out of the souls approach.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:38 am
by Jenuall
I don't think I've felt any magic from a Bethesda developed game since Oblivion, and even that in hindsight was the beginning of a dilution of the formula from the Morrowind days. They've been outdone in basically every aspect by other RPG developers and I would find it unfathomable if they put out a new game and it was just the same old gooseberry fool again.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:38 am
by Knoyleo
Rubix wrote:Tafdolphin wrote:aaaanyway. Bethesda have been gooseberry fool for ages the next game needs to be good etc etc
As a developer since Skyrim for sure. But as a publisher they have been good
Didn't they start putting their games under review embargo until release day? They might be publishing good games, but they're still a shitty publisher.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:40 am
by OrangeRKN
I think it's unfathomable to think TES VI will be anything other than Skyrim 2 given how popular that game was. When Bethesda changed their storytelling approach to better suit their strengths with F76 everyone just complained about not having NPCs until they relented
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:40 am
by Photek
Jenuall wrote:I don't think I've felt any magic from a Bethesda developed game since Oblivion, and even that in hindsight was the beginning of a dilution of the formula from the Morrowind days. They've been outdone in basically every aspect by other RPG developers and I would find it unfathomable if they put out a new game and it was just the same old gooseberry fool again.
Although it was obviously a sales success, I feel, on this Forum I'm the only person who really liked Skyrim.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:41 am
by Photek
OrangeRKN wrote:I think it's unfathomable to think TES VI will be anything other than Skyrim 2 given how popular that game was. When Bethesda changed their storytelling approach to better suit their strengths with F76 everyone just complained about not having NPCs until they relented
F76 is much better with the NPC stuff though, you have to admit.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:43 am
by Tafdolphin
OrangeRKN wrote:I think it's unfathomable to think TES VI will be anything other than Skyrim 2 given how popular that game was. When Bethesda changed their storytelling approach to better suit
their strengths with F76 everyone just complained about not having NPCs until they relented
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:48 am
by SEP
Photek wrote:Jenuall wrote:I don't think I've felt any magic from a Bethesda developed game since Oblivion, and even that in hindsight was the beginning of a dilution of the formula from the Morrowind days. They've been outdone in basically every aspect by other RPG developers and I would find it unfathomable if they put out a new game and it was just the same old gooseberry fool again.
Although it was obviously a sales success, I feel, on this Forum I'm the only person who really liked Skyrim.
It's the cool game to hate on.
Re: The Elder Scrolls VI - Xbox Series, PC.
Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:48 am
by Jenuall
Photek wrote:Jenuall wrote:I don't think I've felt any magic from a Bethesda developed game since Oblivion, and even that in hindsight was the beginning of a dilution of the formula from the Morrowind days. They've been outdone in basically every aspect by other RPG developers and I would find it unfathomable if they put out a new game and it was just the same old gooseberry fool again.
Although it was obviously a sales success, I feel, on this Forum I'm the only person who really liked Skyrim.
I played Skyrim, probably for over 200 hours across various play throughs, and I'm not saying that it was an objectively bad experience - for most of that time I think I'd have to say I was enjoying myself. But the whole thing is average, no part of it is special or "best in class" compared to any other RPG, and there are just so many things that it could and should do better that after a while I find it hard to look at the game with anything other than a critical and disappointed eye.
It's videogame musak really - largely inoffensive and something that passes time but it never really engages you or challenges you in any meaningful way