Brexit

NickSCFC wrote:

Shadow wrote:Nick, the Empire was a horrific time of cultural destruction, slavery, murder and thievery that we should all be ashamed of.

Yeah just completely ignore the science, technology, medicine, judicial systems and democracy we introduced to the darkest corners of the world

Places like Stoke?

Moggy wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Shadow wrote:Nick, the Empire was a horrific time of cultural destruction, slavery, murder and thievery that we should all be ashamed of.

Yeah just completely ignore the science, technology, medicine, judicial systems and democracy we introduced to the darkest corners of the world

Places like Stoke?

They're still waiting for it.

Great Britain is infallible Shadow, don't you know?

I always find it strange when people say "we" when referring to a country full of people who are are all long dead now and have nothing to do with us. "We" introduced things to other areas of the world? No, "we" didn't. Just because people who once lived here did something of note doesn't mean anyone living in that country today has the right to claim them as their own triumphs. *cough*1966WorldCup*cough*

The idea of being "better" than another country is exactly what is wrong with the US right now and I hate to think that the UK gives off the same vibe, it's shameful. The sort of people that think they are better than others usually turn out to be far worse in all the ways that I find to matter.

I would love to see what would happen if the world could be reset to about five thousand years ago and rerun up to the present day. How would country boundaries lie, which nations would be the richest, when would the major discoveries be made compared with our world etc.

Can you tell I've been playing a lot of Civilisation recently .

I think it would be extremely interesting to see the results if the experiment could be accurately run thousands of times over.

A pointless notion (and post), but it's Saturday morning so I'll let myself off.

Referendum set for 23rd June.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35621079

I'm currently swaying towards "Out" just to spite Cameron.

This EU referendum is a huge scummy smokescreen to the real issues in the UK.

Health, Education and Industry are being destroyed, but as long as Dave takes the food out of the mouths of some Romanian babies, everyone is happy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35621079

Britain will vote on whether to remain in the EU on Thursday, 23 June, Prime Minister David Cameron has said.

I hope the referendum does vote to leave the EU, and this gooseberry fool blows up in the governments faces.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35616768

The ability for the UK to enact "an emergency safeguard" to protect the City of London, to stop UK firms being forced to relocate into Europe and to ensure British businesses do not face "discrimination" for being outside the eurozone

This is what its all about, the UK are only bankers now.

If England or Wales make it out of their groups at the Euros there could be literally thousands of British people stranded in France when the borders are closed. Cameron you loon.

Forgot about the Euros..

Is it a good idea for him to run the referendum during a period of unusually heightened patriotism?

Shadow wrote:I'm currently swaying towards "Out" just to spite Cameron.

Cameron is off in 2020 anyway. Don't vote out just to spite a bloke that will be gone in a few years.

Vote in just to spite Michael Gove.

Gove and IDS are both outies. Seeing these two names should let everyone on the leave campaign know that they are already doomed. Even if it was going to be run successfully, they will find some way to mess it up.

I was thinking about voting out just to try to create problems with TPP but the reality is that the UK government is one of the primary forces pushing for the internal corporate coup d'etat and the creation of the grim cyberpunk dystopia that our children will have to live in. So leaving the EU would do little if nothing to stop it. In reality, only the American populace can stop it because without the US the entire deal falls through.

Have they intentionally put Gove there because he is universally disliked? If Jeremy Hunt goes with Out too then this is definitely a calculated set up.

It does seem kind of funny that all the ministers going for out seem to be by and large the least effective.

There's one for everyone

Don't like the Conservative establishment? They have Gove
Don't like the crazy right? They have Farage
Don't like the crazy left? They have Galloway
and now supposedly
Don't like Labour? They have Corbyn

Just a shame for the In campaign that everyone else in UK politics is also an unlikable gooseberry fool, their group is Cameron Osborne and the strawberry floating blair followers

Corbyn isn't going to be involved with Leave, or even endorse it.

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I would love to see what would happen if the world could be reset to about five thousand years ago and rerun up to the present day. How would country boundaries lie, which nations would be the richest, when would the major discoveries be made compared with our world etc.

I think it would be extremely interesting to see the results if the experiment could be accurately run thousands of times over.

Who's to say that isn't what's happening now?

mnightshyamalan.jpg

Trelliz wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I would love to see what would happen if the world could be reset to about five thousand years ago and rerun up to the present day. How would country boundaries lie, which nations would be the richest, when would the major discoveries be made compared with our world etc.

I think it would be extremely interesting to see the results if the experiment could be accurately run thousands of times over.

Who's to say that isn't what's happening now?

mnightshyamalan.jpg

Imagine if they have extensively rerun history and this is the best result they could come up with.

strawberry floating they, wankers.

Rocsteady wrote:I hate the little englander mentality that we still hold some incredible, unique power on the world stage. The more you travel the more you realise no-one particularly gives a strawberry float about the uk, understandably.

This very much depends on the country. America for example definitely does - more so in the last few years because of the heavy crossover appeal in music, television, and sport. Not to mention the diabolical rise of the Daily Mail website.

Interestingly, the EU referendum deal has led on many of today's foreign newspapers. The narrative is the UK has got a great deal, and that we've kinda thrown our weight around; the EU are the ones who've had to bend over backwards to us. A monumentally massive contrast to our press, who think Cameron's renegotiation is absolutely pathetic.

I'm on the side of staying not caring whether the deal brought more which it has to some degree but staying in benefits us as whole and stability going forward. I think my frustrations on both sides and in some ways especially the out votes people never actually clarify how it would be made better they state things like "we could set our own rules" but seriously seem to have no understanding on the process or how long that would take.

If we voted to leave, we would not actually leave for 3-5 years, simply put. Unravelling the laws economic deals processes writing new processes would take years literally. But the moment an out vote occurs there is the potential for a massive financial crash, the economy as it is, is vulnerable, look at recently with the effects of China hitting us hard. Now think of the effect that a vote on leaving Britains biggest trading partner (57% as of 2014) would have on our economy in the immediate and then as it gets closer to the potential of leaving. It would most possibly be catastrophic.

Next you have those who say "we could set up our own trade agreements" do you have any idea how long trade agreements take? And from an economic standpoint why would an Asia want to talk to the UK over Europe think logically.

You have are a business and you have 10million units to sell what is a better prospect:

1. A market of 60million people
2. A market of 600million people

Logic dictates that you would go with the second, so the idea of us setting up trade deals that benefit us more is highly unlikely, if anything we will draw higher purchase costs for ourselves.

You then have some of the benefits the EU has brought I don't know how it would work but there is a potential for Mobile companies who are now forced to give cheaper calls and internet in Europe they could reverse that for UK citizens as the EU has no hold over that. Now by 2020 i believe it is the EU planned on having it free or the same cost as your home country. This is just one of benefits we receive becuase we are part of the EU everything else again could change and we lose all that and it has to be built in as part of policies for us, which is no guarantee.

Don't get me wrong the EU is not perfect not by a long shot but neither are we. It pains me to say it but alot of this seems to be born of immigration, yet many people fail to see the benefit that migrants bring to our economy especially. For a long, long time immigrants generally took jobs we British didn't want to do, and only got in a huff when the economy crashed. I want stricter rules on who especially criminals come in and also with sending money home, you want money earned here spent here.

But the deal DC has got does improve things:

So straight away:

British taxpayers will never be made to bail out countries in the eurozone, British businesses cannot be discriminated against just because they are outside the eurozone, and the eurozone cannot act as a block to undermine the single market.

That's nice if it definitely enforced

This should deal with some of the money going out:

Host nations can cut migrant workers' child benefit payments for children living overseas to the rate paid in their home countries.

Now when everyone moans about "oh my god so much of our benefits go over seas" its hyperbole by the media, in the grand scheme of things per year Child benefits for children outside of the UK costs us 55million. That is it, it really isn't billions. So with the above change especially in the poorer countries that could be quite severely cut as their living rates are far far lower than ours.

The EU is certainly not perfect but we are better for being part of it, outside i think we will seriously struggle.