Brexit

DML wrote:I think people think on the Leave side think that people on the remain side just love the EU and thats it. That isn't really the argument.

I have benefitted from mixing with people from other countries, and I struggle to see why others would decide to pit themselves AGAINST those people and not learn from them, but even if I take those feelings out, I just do not understand any single part of the logic for leaving at all. Like none.

We had/have a pretty sweet deal. All I hear is that we have a bad deal? People saying we can negotiate a better deal outside. The EU has already let us be part of the EU and the single market without needing to be in the Euro! We're already getting preferential treatment! We had a great deal going! We're trading with 27 countries, how is that NOT global?

The country won't prevent immigration either. It simply limits numbers of EU immigrants. You're still going to get Nigerian, Indian, Chinese, America, Canadian...plus all the EU immigrants who will be allowed to stay or come to the UK.

The world is becoming a smaller place. I don't understand anyone who denies that, because its undeniably true. Our cultures are going to mix more! Get strawberry floating used to it, its GOING to happen. The idea of Britain shutting itself off from the rest of Europe is ridiculous in this day and age.

Most of the people who voted Leave in this thread I am willing to bet do not feel the pinch. They will complain about millions siphoned off by the EU, but does it really affect your daily life? No. So why throw the dice and take that gamble? You live in one ofn the richest countries in the world, and you know what? It doesnt neccessarily mean it has to stay that way. I have a petrol station at the end of my road and petrol has gone up 20% in six months. TWENTY PERCENT! That might effect you, and we've not even left yet.

I don't accept or roll over to the Leave view because I don't see a decent argument for any of it, the bits I did agree with were lies, and the bits that somehow bother others don't bother me. I literally couldn't be more bewildered at it. I honestly have to ask myself every day, how on earth have so many people come to a different conclusion?

Garth wrote:

DML wrote:I think people think on the Leave side think that people on the remain side just love the EU and thats it. That isn't really the argument.

I have benefitted from mixing with people from other countries, and I struggle to see why others would decide to pit themselves AGAINST those people and not learn from them, but even if I take those feelings out, I just do not understand any single part of the logic for leaving at all. Like none.

We had/have a pretty sweet deal. All I hear is that we have a bad deal? People saying we can negotiate a better deal outside. The EU has already let us be part of the EU and the single market without needing to be in the Euro! We're already getting preferential treatment! We had a great deal going! We're trading with 27 countries, how is that NOT global?

The country won't prevent immigration either. It simply limits numbers of EU immigrants. You're still going to get Nigerian, Indian, Chinese, America, Canadian...plus all the EU immigrants who will be allowed to stay or come to the UK.

The world is becoming a smaller place. I don't understand anyone who denies that, because its undeniably true. Our cultures are going to mix more! Get strawberry floating used to it, its GOING to happen. The idea of Britain shutting itself off from the rest of Europe is ridiculous in this day and age.

Most of the people who voted Leave in this thread I am willing to bet do not feel the pinch. They will complain about millions siphoned off by the EU, but does it really affect your daily life? No. So why throw the dice and take that gamble? You live in one ofn the richest countries in the world, and you know what? It doesnt neccessarily mean it has to stay that way. I have a petrol station at the end of my road and petrol has gone up 20% in six months. TWENTY PERCENT! That might effect you, and we've not even left yet.

I don't accept or roll over to the Leave view because I don't see a decent argument for any of it, the bits I did agree with were lies, and the bits that somehow bother others don't bother me. I literally couldn't be more bewildered at it. I honestly have to ask myself every day, how on earth have so many people come to a different conclusion?

Well said!

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:

Garth wrote:

DML wrote:I think people think on the Leave side think that people on the remain side just love the EU and thats it. That isn't really the argument.

I have benefitted from mixing with people from other countries, and I struggle to see why others would decide to pit themselves AGAINST those people and not learn from them, but even if I take those feelings out, I just do not understand any single part of the logic for leaving at all. Like none.

We had/have a pretty sweet deal. All I hear is that we have a bad deal? People saying we can negotiate a better deal outside. The EU has already let us be part of the EU and the single market without needing to be in the Euro! We're already getting preferential treatment! We had a great deal going! We're trading with 27 countries, how is that NOT global?

The country won't prevent immigration either. It simply limits numbers of EU immigrants. You're still going to get Nigerian, Indian, Chinese, America, Canadian...plus all the EU immigrants who will be allowed to stay or come to the UK.

The world is becoming a smaller place. I don't understand anyone who denies that, because its undeniably true. Our cultures are going to mix more! Get strawberry floating used to it, its GOING to happen. The idea of Britain shutting itself off from the rest of Europe is ridiculous in this day and age.

Most of the people who voted Leave in this thread I am willing to bet do not feel the pinch. They will complain about millions siphoned off by the EU, but does it really affect your daily life? No. So why throw the dice and take that gamble? You live in one ofn the richest countries in the world, and you know what? It doesnt neccessarily mean it has to stay that way. I have a petrol station at the end of my road and petrol has gone up 20% in six months. TWENTY PERCENT! That might effect you, and we've not even left yet.

I don't accept or roll over to the Leave view because I don't see a decent argument for any of it, the bits I did agree with were lies, and the bits that somehow bother others don't bother me. I literally couldn't be more bewildered at it. I honestly have to ask myself every day, how on earth have so many people come to a different conclusion?

Well said!

The thing is a lot of people voted out because they believe that by getting back control of our borders we will be able to stop people coming from india, Nigeria etc. Most people I've spoken to don't actually mind immigrants from Poland etc they prefer them to someone from Pakistan or Somalia for example. But what most experts think is that this will end up with less immigrants from Europe and more from these other countries, flying completely in the face of what some voters wanted to achieve.

Moggy wrote:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:

Garth wrote:

DML wrote:I think people think on the Leave side think that people on the remain side just love the EU and thats it. That isn't really the argument.

I have benefitted from mixing with people from other countries, and I struggle to see why others would decide to pit themselves AGAINST those people and not learn from them, but even if I take those feelings out, I just do not understand any single part of the logic for leaving at all. Like none.

We had/have a pretty sweet deal. All I hear is that we have a bad deal? People saying we can negotiate a better deal outside. The EU has already let us be part of the EU and the single market without needing to be in the Euro! We're already getting preferential treatment! We had a great deal going! We're trading with 27 countries, how is that NOT global?

The country won't prevent immigration either. It simply limits numbers of EU immigrants. You're still going to get Nigerian, Indian, Chinese, America, Canadian...plus all the EU immigrants who will be allowed to stay or come to the UK.

The world is becoming a smaller place. I don't understand anyone who denies that, because its undeniably true. Our cultures are going to mix more! Get strawberry floating used to it, its GOING to happen. The idea of Britain shutting itself off from the rest of Europe is ridiculous in this day and age.

Most of the people who voted Leave in this thread I am willing to bet do not feel the pinch. They will complain about millions siphoned off by the EU, but does it really affect your daily life? No. So why throw the dice and take that gamble? You live in one ofn the richest countries in the world, and you know what? It doesnt neccessarily mean it has to stay that way. I have a petrol station at the end of my road and petrol has gone up 20% in six months. TWENTY PERCENT! That might effect you, and we've not even left yet.

I don't accept or roll over to the Leave view because I don't see a decent argument for any of it, the bits I did agree with were lies, and the bits that somehow bother others don't bother me. I literally couldn't be more bewildered at it. I honestly have to ask myself every day, how on earth have so many people come to a different conclusion?

Well said!

The thing is a lot of people voted out because they believe that by getting back control of our borders we will be able to stop people coming from india, Nigeria etc. Most people I've spoken to don't actually mind immigrants from Poland etc they prefer them to someone from Pakistan or Somalia for example. But what most experts think is that this will end up with less immigrants from Europe and more from these other countries, flying completely in the face of what some voters wanted to achieve.

Farage has himself predicted more black people coming to Britain if/when we leave the EU.

http://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article ... arage.html

Meep wrote:The thing that most infuriated me about this whole thing was the complete lack of historical awareness of what life was like before EU membership. Before the UK joined our economy was languishing behind Italy, now we are on the verge of catching up to Germany. Britain was the main architect of the single market; we were the main ones who pushed for it and we profited massively from becoming a major service and financial hub within the EU. Because of this we have been able to massively improve living standards over the last forty years of membership.

So after all this massive success, people then claiming "the EU never did anything for us" seems absolutely bonkers. We helped create the whole thing, we profited massively and then just decided to... walk away? It's by far the most unfathomable decision an electorate has ever taken in my lifetime. The strangest thing of all is that those who did so are mainly from the older demographics who ought to remember what life was like before we joined. It just goes to show that wisdom does not necessarily go with age, I suppose.

I think the main thing that caused this was a combination of ignorance of the historical context we have enjoyed with the EU, lack of critical examination of campaign claims and what for a lack of a better word I might call 'gross complacency'. We've had it good for so long we've forgotten what it was like before and have come to expect our current prosperity as par for the course. My fear is that we might be in for a very rude awakening.

lex-man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:

Garth wrote:

DML wrote:I think people think on the Leave side think that people on the remain side just love the EU and thats it. That isn't really the argument.

I have benefitted from mixing with people from other countries, and I struggle to see why others would decide to pit themselves AGAINST those people and not learn from them, but even if I take those feelings out, I just do not understand any single part of the logic for leaving at all. Like none.

We had/have a pretty sweet deal. All I hear is that we have a bad deal? People saying we can negotiate a better deal outside. The EU has already let us be part of the EU and the single market without needing to be in the Euro! We're already getting preferential treatment! We had a great deal going! We're trading with 27 countries, how is that NOT global?

The country won't prevent immigration either. It simply limits numbers of EU immigrants. You're still going to get Nigerian, Indian, Chinese, America, Canadian...plus all the EU immigrants who will be allowed to stay or come to the UK.

The world is becoming a smaller place. I don't understand anyone who denies that, because its undeniably true. Our cultures are going to mix more! Get strawberry floating used to it, its GOING to happen. The idea of Britain shutting itself off from the rest of Europe is ridiculous in this day and age.

Most of the people who voted Leave in this thread I am willing to bet do not feel the pinch. They will complain about millions siphoned off by the EU, but does it really affect your daily life? No. So why throw the dice and take that gamble? You live in one ofn the richest countries in the world, and you know what? It doesnt neccessarily mean it has to stay that way. I have a petrol station at the end of my road and petrol has gone up 20% in six months. TWENTY PERCENT! That might effect you, and we've not even left yet.

I don't accept or roll over to the Leave view because I don't see a decent argument for any of it, the bits I did agree with were lies, and the bits that somehow bother others don't bother me. I literally couldn't be more bewildered at it. I honestly have to ask myself every day, how on earth have so many people come to a different conclusion?

Well said!

The thing is a lot of people voted out because they believe that by getting back control of our borders we will be able to stop people coming from india, Nigeria etc. Most people I've spoken to don't actually mind immigrants from Poland etc they prefer them to someone from Pakistan or Somalia for example. But what most experts think is that this will end up with less immigrants from Europe and more from these other countries, flying completely in the face of what some voters wanted to achieve.

Farage has himself predicted more black people coming to Britain if/when we leave the EU.

http://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article ... arage.html

I'm quite surprised the comments seem to be OK with more immigration from the common wealth.

Knoyleo wrote:

Meep wrote:The thing that most infuriated me about this whole thing was the complete lack of historical awareness of what life was like before EU membership. Before the UK joined our economy was languishing behind Italy, now we are on the verge of catching up to Germany. Britain was the main architect of the single market; we were the main ones who pushed for it and we profited massively from becoming a major service and financial hub within the EU. Because of this we have been able to massively improve living standards over the last forty years of membership.

So after all this massive success, people then claiming "the EU never did anything for us" seems absolutely bonkers. We helped create the whole thing, we profited massively and then just decided to... walk away? It's by far the most unfathomable decision an electorate has ever taken in my lifetime. The strangest thing of all is that those who did so are mainly from the older demographics who ought to remember what life was like before we joined. It just goes to show that wisdom does not necessarily go with age, I suppose.

I think the main thing that caused this was a combination of ignorance of the historical context we have enjoyed with the EU, lack of critical examination of campaign claims and what for a lack of a better word I might call 'gross complacency'. We've had it good for so long we've forgotten what it was like before and have come to expect our current prosperity as par for the course. My fear is that we might be in for a very rude awakening.

We were Great Britain before we joined the EU, and we can be great after leaving them, too.

Moggy wrote:
Farage has himself predicted more black people coming to Britain if/when we leave the EU.

http://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article ... arage.html

Lagamorph wrote:Australia says UK will need relaxed immigration controls for Australians in order to secure free trade deal

Expect the same from China and India.

Knoyleo wrote::lol:

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that I am aware that Great Britain is just the geographical name for the largest of the British Isles, and has no bearing on the prosperity of the nations occupying it.

If only someone had told Trump. He'll be sitting in the White House, waiting for the Nation State equivalent of OFSTED to turn up and grant America Great status again, so they can go back to being GUSA. And it'll never happen.

lex-man wrote:

Knoyleo wrote::lol:

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that I am aware that Great Britain is just the geographical name for the largest of the British Isles, and has no bearing on the prosperity of the nations occupying it.

If only someone had told Trump. He'll be sitting in the White House, waiting for the Nation State equivalent of OFSTED to turn up and grant America Great status again, so they can go back to being GUSA. And it'll never happen.

I thought it was in comparison to Brittney in France.

Hyperion wrote:

lex-man wrote:

Knoyleo wrote::lol:

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that I am aware that Great Britain is just the geographical name for the largest of the British Isles, and has no bearing on the prosperity of the nations occupying it.

If only someone had told Trump. He'll be sitting in the White House, waiting for the Nation State equivalent of OFSTED to turn up and grant America Great status again, so they can go back to being GUSA. And it'll never happen.

I thought it was in comparison to Brittney in France.

lex-man wrote:

Hyperion wrote:

lex-man wrote:

Knoyleo wrote::lol:

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that I am aware that Great Britain is just the geographical name for the largest of the British Isles, and has no bearing on the prosperity of the nations occupying it.

If only someone had told Trump. He'll be sitting in the White House, waiting for the Nation State equivalent of OFSTED to turn up and grant America Great status again, so they can go back to being GUSA. And it'll never happen.

I thought it was in comparison to Brittney in France.

Yeah, the country is much bigger than her.