Brexit

I think I'd side with Scottish independence this time if the choice is between being taken out of the EU and having no option to get back in while being under a Conservative government for a generation, vs being taken out of the EU and then starting on a path to getting back in while being free of the Conservative government. I believe they're headed towards financial turmoil either way.

Garth wrote:I think I'd side with Scottish independence this time if the choice is between being taken out of the EU and having no option to get back in while being under a Conservative government for a generation, vs being taken out of the EU and then starting on a path to getting back in while being free of the Conservative government. I believe they're headed towards financial turmoil either way.

This is where genuine evidence and information is needed, there are going to be financial difficulties either way but it is still unknown how / if the Scottish economy can actually survive on its own. There needs to be proper information to let people make an informed decision as yeah there is a chance of being able to apply to the EU but if the economy isn't up to the required levels and can't sustain itself up until Scotland joins then leaving is suicide.

If anything this has even more risk than the UK vote because it could be an absolute complete disaster.

Errkal wrote:
Garth wrote:I think I'd side with Scottish independence this time if the choice is between being taken out of the EU and having no option to get back in while being under a Conservative government for a generation, vs being taken out of the EU and then starting on a path to getting back in while being free of the Conservative government. I believe they're headed towards financial turmoil either way.

This is where genuine evidence and information is needed, there are going to be financial difficulties either way but it is still unknown how / if the Scottish economy can actually survive on its own. There needs to be proper information to let people make an informed decision as yeah there is a chance of being able to apply to the EU but if the economy isn't up to the required levels and can't sustain itself up until Scotland joins then leaving is suicide.

If anything this has even more risk than the UK vote because it could be an absolute complete disaster.

The EU referendum has shown though that evidence is not needed. Just make up any figures you like and run with them.

Maybe the SNP could hire a bus and write "We send £450bilion a week to Westminster. We should spend that on the NHS instead!". Or maybe they could play on there being 55 million British people that could "flood" across the OPEN BORDER at any time? Maybe they can talk about the undemocratic nature of the UK parliament?

Basically every single Leave lie and mistruth can be used against the UK government. It will be interesting to see how they respond to it.

Has it been discussed whether Scotland could join the EEA as an interim measure?

Scotland should join Eire and crib their EU membership as a stopgap while they sort out their own EU membership.

Errkal wrote:Also the lead up to January will include all the additional Christmas temp staff that get taken on which will inflate numbers.

My company took on 7000 new staff over Christmas. Most have left now.

However, last year we took on over 10,000 for the same period...

Moggy wrote:http://i.imgur.com/15L38pl.jpg

This is pretty accurate :lol:

OnlyShallow wrote:
Errkal wrote:Also the lead up to January will include all the additional Christmas temp staff that get taken on which will inflate numbers.

My company took on 7000 new staff over Christmas. Most have left now.

However, last year we took on over 10,000 for the same period...

The overall employment figures are still better now than they were for the same period last year though.

Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Garth wrote:I think I'd side with Scottish independence this time if the choice is between being taken out of the EU and having no option to get back in while being under a Conservative government for a generation, vs being taken out of the EU and then starting on a path to getting back in while being free of the Conservative government. I believe they're headed towards financial turmoil either way.

This is where genuine evidence and information is needed, there are going to be financial difficulties either way but it is still unknown how / if the Scottish economy can actually survive on its own. There needs to be proper information to let people make an informed decision as yeah there is a chance of being able to apply to the EU but if the economy isn't up to the required levels and can't sustain itself up until Scotland joins then leaving is suicide.

If anything this has even more risk than the UK vote because it could be an absolute complete disaster.

The EU referendum has shown though that evidence is not needed. Just make up any figures you like and run with them.

Maybe the SNP could hire a bus and write "We send £450bilion a week to Westminster. We should spend that on the NHS instead!". Or maybe they could play on there being 55 million British people that could "flood" across the OPEN BORDER at any time? Maybe they can talk about the undemocratic nature of the UK parliament?

Basically every single Leave lie and mistruth can be used against the UK government. It will be interesting to see how they respond to it.

That would be amusing but thankfully the SNP won't go that route, it'll be a positive liberal message they'll try to cultivate. Most of it will probably be half-truths and glossing over the vital parts again (currency, EU membership,etc.) but it's still preferable to the hate-filled Brexit pish.

Rocsteady wrote:
OnlyShallow wrote:
Errkal wrote:Also the lead up to January will include all the additional Christmas temp staff that get taken on which will inflate numbers.

My company took on 7000 new staff over Christmas. Most have left now.

However, last year we took on over 10,000 for the same period...

The overall employment figures are still better now than they were for the same period last year though.

Overall they have, but my point is it can't be used as a "Brexit it working" argument as unemployment will always go down ahead of Christmas, sure it is a bigger boost that normal, but due to the large volume to temp staff it doesn't make it a valid point.

If February, March and April also have low unemployment it may show something, but yeah the run up to Christmas isn't really valid.

Errkal wrote:my point is it can't be used as a "Brexit it working" argument

Other than melters on Facebook and news site comments, it really can't be used for that as Brexit hasn't even started yet.

Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:my point is it can't be used as a "Brexit it working" argument

Other than melters on Facebook and news site comments, it really can't be used for that as Brexit hasn't even started yet.

You could probably very loosely make the argument if unemployment is falling that companies have confidence in our future as they are expanding and so it won't necessarily be all doom and gloom. It is however one hell of a leap.

I don't think it's that big a leap. After the vote - when we realised that Article 50 wouldn't be invoked immediately - most of us here would still have guessed our economy would be doing much worse than it is for fear of the future.

The pound's still at rock bottom but we should be prepared to give credit where it's due because otherwise arguments cannot be taken seriously; if everything's looking fine on the jobs front yet we still pretend it's disastrous it's incredibly unpersuasive and counter-productive. The news is good and reflects, at worst, a slight positive on what was to be expected from Brexit: jobs haven't yet fallen off a cliff.

Rocsteady wrote:I don't think it's that big a leap. After the vote - when we realised that Article 50 wouldn't be invoked immediately - most of us here would still have guessed our economy would be doing much worse than it is for fear of the future.

The pound's still at rock bottom but we should be prepared to give credit where it's due because otherwise arguments cannot be taken seriously; if everything's looking fine on the jobs front yet we still pretend it's disastrous it's incredibly unpersuasive and counter-productive. The news is good and reflects, at worst, a slight positive on what was to be expected from Brexit: jobs haven't yet fallen off a cliff.

I partially agree with you there. It is certainly too early to tell what the economy is going to do when we leave the EU and we cannot keep saying “Brexit sucks” or “Brexit’s great!” at any positive or negative financial news. Job numbers are reliant on a huge range of factors, Brexit will have a little bit of an impact at the moment but not enough to make any real difference in the totals.

But, I think the value of the pound is different, that dropped off of the cliff as soon as the referendum result was announced and has barely climbed since. With that we can actually see and pinpoint an effect on the market of the uncertainty of Brexit.

Yeah tell me about it man, I have lost - and continue to lose - stacks of money because of the utterly dire exchange rate. Total shite.

Garth wrote:So British unemployment is at its lowest rate in 41 years when we're supposedly flooded with foreigners stealing British jobs.

While we're still in the EU too!

I would actually like a breakdown on what is included in this figure. I'm sceptical as to whether it doesn't include the amount of people on shitty zero hour contracts.

PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave by KK » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:44 am

Some more investment in Brexit Britain...

BBC News wrote:Japanese carmaker Toyota is to invest almost a quarter of a billion pounds in its UK operations.

Toyota says it will invest £240m to upgrade the Burnaston plant near Derby to enable production of vehicles using its new global manufacturing system.

The carmaker says the investment will improve the plant's competitiveness and promote UK supply chain efficiencies.

Toyota has been making cars in the UK since 1992. The Burnaston plant makes the Auris and the Avensis models.

Last year, the plant manufactured around 180,000 vehicles. Most are exported to the EU and elsewhere in the world.

The Burnaston plant, together with Toyota's engine plant at Deeside in North Wales, employ about 3,400 workers.

The government is also providing £21.3m in funding for training, research and development and enhancements of the plants environmental performance.

In January, the UK car industry trade body, the SMMT, indicated that uncertainty around Brexit and the UK's future trading arrangements had hit investment in the sector.

It said that total committed investment announcements in the automotive sector in 2016 were approximately £1.66bn across a number of companies. This figure was down from £2.5bn in 2015.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39289269

Looks like at least the car industry has secured a good brexit deal.

Most are exported to the EU and elsewhere in the world.

I'd love to see companies want to do this with WTO Tarriffs.

PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave by KK » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:38 am

That and the banking industry will have the government bending over backwards to placate them no matter what happens.

In the last few months we've had all the heavy hitters commit to various things (Dyson, McDonald's, GlaxoSmithKline, Apple, Google, Facebook, Nissan) but we're not privy to the all important tax arrangements. Some of this stuff is hardly a token gesture - McDonald's for example is moving their entire EU operation over here (i.e. shifting its tax domicile from Luxembourg to the UK). You delve deeper, like with a lot of these companies, and the reason is clear: tax. Our corporation tax currently hovers at 20% - but will likely be reduced further outside of the EU - compared with a whopping 35% in the likes of the USA, and 33% in France and Germany. The EU is also investigating McDonald's tax affairs, and could order them to pay out $500m in back taxes.

Brexit

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Who is online

Affiliates