Brexit

Well, at least we have Liam Fox's speech to look forward to. That should be funny at least.

I'm starting to get sick of this 'come together' crap we're hearing now. I would like to retain the standard of living I have now and my worker rights. I don't want to take a hit for this and be told that I have to work harder for my country or some gooseberry fool. I fully expect this to be spun this way. strawberry float that.

Squinty wrote:Well, at least we have Liam Fox's speech to look forward to. That should be funny at least.

I'm starting to get sick of this 'come together' crap we're hearing now. I would like to retain the standard of living I have now and my worker rights. I don't want to take a hit for this and be told that I have to work harder for my country or some gooseberry fool. I fully expect this to be spun this way. strawberry float that.

We should all come together, just not with the rest of Europe, just our little island.

Our Maritime future

It is not possible to reconcile. Brexit is a nativist nonsense with few redeeming arguments. It might be possible to find common ground if there were any rational reason behind it but there has never been one explained to me. Projections about the consequences only seem to disagree on how bad things will be. There is no serious analysis produced by any independent body pointing to things improving as a result, not even remotely. This is not a left/right, liberal/authoritarian issue. It is a reality/fantasy issue and I know what side I am on.

I see myself as a basically rational person (well, I am human and therefore never completely rational, but I try). Asking me to get behind this catastrophe is basically asking me suspend my disbelief; to let myself join in with the fantasy. All well and good when you are enjoying a game or movie but a very dangerous way to lead your life or make political decisions. We should not reconcile ourselves to fantasy, not when is much is at stake. I think we should consider ourselves honour-bound to stay fast anchored in reality and oppose ugly sentiments and false promises until the very last if necessary.

Boris's speech was nothing if not emblematic of the problem. He claimed to be reassure and yet offered no clarity, no detail, no answers as to how the many varied problems are to be resolved. Yet again he obfuscates. Yet again he waves his hand and says these things will be dealt with later. Well, unfortunately for him, it is later. What is the god-damn plan? Where are the solutions? All he can do is try to paint the broad strokes of the fantasy he sold people back at the referendum. I and others on my side did not buy that offal the first time. Why would we buy it now?

There's nothing to unite behind, I'd rather die.

I couldn't give a strawberry float about democracy, I'd cancel it in minutes. Sometimes you have to save people from themselves. The only reason this government gets any say is because they effectively illegally sent a bung to a load of racists. strawberry float em.

We really need to see this plan now. I know they have allocated money to infrastructure for leaving, but have they actually started to doing anything at all? Calling their bluff hasn't worked.

Annoying news that the NI executive talks have crashed. I'm not opposed to the Irish Language act, but honestly, they need to kick it down the path and actually concentrate on governing and mitigating damage for this. An act to preserve culture really isn't something we should be worrying about now.

Squinty wrote:We really need to see this plan now. I know they have allocated money to infrastructure for leaving, but have they actually started to doing anything at all? Calling their bluff hasn't worked.

We are fast approaching the anniversary of Article 50 being triggered (29 March 2017). We have just over 13 months left to reach a deal. And they appear to have done strawberry float all so far.

I'm sure I read some report the other day that there was a cabinet meeting soon to discuss Brexit strategy?? A year in and they still haven't got a strategy?

I can't believe there is even a Tory who would say this government is doing a good job on Brexit. They've been an unmitigated disaster.

Moggy wrote:We are fast approaching the anniversary of Article 50 being triggered (29 March 2017). We have just over 13 months left to reach a deal. And they appear to have done strawberry float all so far.

Got a lot less than that. Any deal then needs to be ratified

Hyperion wrote:

Moggy wrote:We are fast approaching the anniversary of Article 50 being triggered (29 March 2017). We have just over 13 months left to reach a deal. And they appear to have done strawberry float all so far.

Got a lot less than that. Any deal then needs to be ratified

Yeah we've actually got about 7 months. I think the EU have said the final 6 months are to ratify, not negotiate. All negotiations need to be done by October this year.

Hyperion wrote:

Moggy wrote:We are fast approaching the anniversary of Article 50 being triggered (29 March 2017). We have just over 13 months left to reach a deal. And they appear to have done strawberry float all so far.

Got a lot less than that. Any deal then needs to be ratified

True.

Moggy wrote:

Hyperion wrote:

Moggy wrote:We are fast approaching the anniversary of Article 50 being triggered (29 March 2017). We have just over 13 months left to reach a deal. And they appear to have done strawberry float all so far.

Got a lot less than that. Any deal then needs to be ratified

True.

I don't think it really matters. I doubt they could reach a deal if they had five years.

lex-man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Hyperion wrote:

Moggy wrote:We are fast approaching the anniversary of Article 50 being triggered (29 March 2017). We have just over 13 months left to reach a deal. And they appear to have done strawberry float all so far.

Got a lot less than that. Any deal then needs to be ratified

True.

I don't think it really matters. I doubt they could reach a deal if they had five years.

But having 5 years would at least mean we were still in the EU for that time with access to all the existing trade deals.

Forecasters over here saying it could lead to 7% downturn in our economy over the next 15 years cos of Brexit. We're going to try and mitigate that but good god I'm angry that we have to.

Thanks Bexiteers!

Photek wrote:Forecasters over here saying it could lead to 7% downturn in our economy over the next 15 years cos of Brexit. We're going to try and mitigate that but good god I'm angry that we have to.

Thanks Bexiteers!

Leavers will look at that (not your post, the forecast!) and think "see, they need us, they have to deal!". They forget of course that Leavers don't believe in economic projections and that if the UK cave into a deal based on predicted economic woes why would the EU?

We will still soft deal but it will be totally in favour of the EU.

DML wrote:We will still soft deal but it will be totally in favour of the EU.

While I agree that Theresa May is likely to cave (I am not so sure about that if one of the hard Brexit Tories take over), even a soft Brexit is a terrible deal for everyone and will only keep this political chaos going.

Leavers will be unhappy that “we are not fully out!”
Remainers will be unhappy because “we might have well have stayed in!”
Undecideds will be unhappy because “the economy is shrinking!”

The likes of Farage and the hard right Tories will feed off of a soft Brexit, they will be there in the background telling people that they were betrayed by the Tories, that the EU bullied us, that they are losing employment rights and money because we are not fully out and that we are still having to accept too many immigrants because May didn’t get us properly out. As the economy shrinks, the Farage type arguments will persuade more and more people, the Tories will move further right and we might even see a resurgence in the UKIP vote.

I think you are right that May will go for a soft Brexit, but I think it will only lead to a hard Brexit later on.

Moggy wrote:

DML wrote:We will still soft deal but it will be totally in favour of the EU.

While I agree that Theresa May is likely to cave (I am not so sure about that if one of the hard Brexit Tories take over), even a soft Brexit is a terrible deal for everyone and will only keep this political chaos going.

Leavers will be unhappy that “we are not fully out!”
Remainers will be unhappy because “we might have well have stayed in!”
Undecideds will be unhappy because “the economy is shrinking!”

The likes of Farage and the hard right Tories will feed off of a soft Brexit, they will be there in the background telling people that they were betrayed by the Tories, that the EU bullied us, that they are losing employment rights and money because we are not fully out and that we are still having to accept too many immigrants because May didn’t get us properly out. As the economy shrinks, the Farage type arguments will persuade more and more people, the Tories will move further right and we might even see a resurgence in the UKIP vote.

I think you are right that May will go for a soft Brexit, but I think it will only lead to a hard Brexit later on.

In the same way once we leave we won't be able to rejoin, I would suspect if we soft Brexit it would virtually impossible to hard Brexit any time soon.

DML wrote:In the same way once we leave we won't be able to rejoin, I would suspect if we soft Brexit it would virtually impossible to hard Brexit any time soon.

We can rejoin once we leave.

And I would imagine any agreement on a deal can be broken later on.

Photek wrote:Forecasters over here saying it could lead to 7% downturn in our economy over the next 15 years cos of Brexit. We're going to try and mitigate that but good god I'm angry that we have to.

Thanks racist mugs