Jenuall wrote:Corazon de Leon wrote:Jenuall wrote:Corazon de Leon wrote:Jenuall wrote:Corazon de Leon wrote:Jenuall wrote:Yeah his kill count is insane, dude's a strawberry floating killing machine.
No problem with his Nazi hits obviously, but he didn't really flinch when moving from killing full on obvious baddies to just taking out whoever he was pointed at in the subsequent movies!
There are two whole films about him flinching at being pointed in the way of ambiguous targets!
Yeah but it's just lip service, throughout all of his appearances he's smashing the strawberry float out of people who aren't necessarily evil!
Looking at his kill count on that website, he's killed 151 people/things. 54 of them were Nazis, 18 were aliens, 13 were terrorists holding people hostage on a boat, 27 were HYDRA agents(more Nazis!), 26 were robots, and five were Thanos aliens. I think they're all pretty nailed on bad dudes. Of the other 8, 7 of them were a UN squad who were ordered to kill Bucky on sight so you could probably argue self defence, then a random soldier in Avengers who I think was hypnotised by Loki, which was a bit gooseberry fool but again, self defence. So I'm not really with you there.
He rips the strawberry float through SHIELD HQ and the Heli carriers in Winter Soldier, there's absolutely no way that all of the people who die as a result of that are HYDRA
I'm just going off the link that was posted. But really, what's the alternative in that situation? The plan in Winter Soldier was to stop the evil helicarriers from lifting off. Once they got off the ground, it was either destroy them there and risk the lives of SHIELD agents or let them get further out and either carry out their mission/potentially drop them on top of Washington DC. I genuinely don't think there's much of an option there, and there's nothing in any of the films that Rogers-Cap has done on the scale of the blind, vicious vengeance/public execution that Harry Kane performed in the last ep.
Steve was evil, just deal with it!
But seriously, for a man with the propensity to get on his high horse as often as he did Rogers really seemed not to give a gooseberry fool about collateral damage and very much had a "throw my instant death shield at people's heads and ask questions later" kind of attitude!
RE: the last point on following orders - how many years was he running jobs for HYDRA SHIELD before he worked out he was being played? He probably killed a whole heap of people that were actually goodies just because Sundance told him to!
Obviously Harry Kane has clearly lost it as he was a bit of a psycho to start with whereas Steve was the little honest guy given a shot of power and so didn't become corrupted in the same way. But I still think they're trying to create a "New Cap has gone rogue but old Cap was whiter than white!" scenario which doesn't really do justice to the murkier elements of Steve's era with the shield.
In Winter Soldier he seems to mostly answer to Fury but regardless of what's gone on you can't really equate him being misled into working for the villains to, again, a public execution. The film is, I think, supposed to be the culmination of a year or two after Avengers he spent becoming more and more disillusioned by the way in which modern warfare operates.
Also, this is just a theory on my part, but to me Walker seems to be a textbook PTSD case. They've made a few references to "the worst day of my life," and some of the stuff he had to do as a soldier. Before he put on the mask in ep. 2 he didn't exactly seem excited by the role either. I don't think they're setting him up to be an outright villain, just someone who has had major problems and cracked under insane pressure. It might well lead into Falcon dropping back into the role he was playing at the start of Winter Soldier - grief counselling Walker through his experiences instead of (or after) a big fight between the two.
I quite enjoy talking about Cap and his story arc because it's weirdly close to some of the stuff I wrote my PhD about! There's a really interesting thing waiting to be written about the MCU, Cap, propaganda and structures of control by a smarter man than me.