The Falcon and The Winter Soldier | Disney+ | 1st Episode OUT NOW

Qikz wrote:
Hypes wrote:What's this about the plot having changed?

In the original script the Flag Smashers were going to release a virus to try to wipe out half of all humanity.

yikes

The Sharon Carter stuff was easily the weakest part of this for me, I didn't feel at all surprised that she was the Powerbroker but I also don't think I fully followed what was going on with her. Overall I enjoyed the show, I think the second half was better than the first half. I liked that they didn't shy away from talking about racism, and the museum scene with Isaiah was one of the most emotional scenes in the MCU. I also liked that we got to hear more about the consequences of half the population returning, even though the Flag Smashers could've felt more of a threat. Sam and Bucky both had some great moments and they're a lot of fun together, John Walker was an interesting character and I hope we see more of Zemo in future too.

That's not a growth wrote:
Tomous wrote:The Flag Smashers plot definitely felt undercooked. Would make sense if it had to be changed last minute

At the same time, wanting all the returned people to be cared for is a much greater cause in terms of MCU making a statement that mirrors world issues, which works well with the other themes as they're grounded too.

It's a shame they didn't start out with that idea so it was more developed. Wanting to wipe out half of all people again feels a bit too 'comic book' - searching for a big 'thing' to happen - and I would be surprised if they could have done it in a way that made it feel like a cause people in universe would actually get behind and sympathise with.

The theme and concept was great way of exploring an impact of the Thanos. It just needed some work. Having some scenes with displaced people and at refugee camps would have helpedi think. It was hard to fully connect connect the issue because we didn't see much of the actual problem. Just the group repeatedly saying people are joining their movement and a snazzy app where they all meet up.

That was really emotional. I wish we had a real super hero holding our governments to account

Tomous wrote:
That's not a growth wrote:
Tomous wrote:The Flag Smashers plot definitely felt undercooked. Would make sense if it had to be changed last minute

At the same time, wanting all the returned people to be cared for is a much greater cause in terms of MCU making a statement that mirrors world issues, which works well with the other themes as they're grounded too.

It's a shame they didn't start out with that idea so it was more developed. Wanting to wipe out half of all people again feels a bit too 'comic book' - searching for a big 'thing' to happen - and I would be surprised if they could have done it in a way that made it feel like a cause people in universe would actually get behind and sympathise with.

The theme and concept was great way of exploring an impact of the Thanos. It just needed some work. Having some scenes with displaced people and at refugee camps would have helpedi think. It was hard to fully connect connect the issue because we didn't see much of the actual problem. Just the group repeatedly saying people are joining their movement and a snazzy app where they all meet up.

Could have been good if they had a scene similar to Antmans in Endgame, where you have someone go home to check on their family but then it twists that someone else has been living in their home for years - and then follows them through the terrible refugee system for a bit. Could even be part of the back story of the main antagonist.

I like how they showed what it was like in the hospital in Wandavision in the moment everyone came back and the confusion from the point of view of someone who was snapped, and while it might be similar to that I think it could be different enough to work.

It's the people who were on an airplane over the ocean when they snapped I feel sorry for.

And people driving. If Ironman had lived they'd probably carry on his arc with him feeling guilty that 15% of the people he brought back were instantly flattened.

Tomous wrote:It's the people who were on an airplane over the ocean when they snapped I feel sorry for.

Kevin Feige said that the people who could have died in accidents when they were snapped were put somewhere safe instead as that's what Smart Hulk wished for.

This was such a good series. I am now looking forward to Captain America 4 that just started development.

They haven't specifically shown anyone coming back from the snap have they?

PatSharpsMullet wrote:
Tomous wrote:It's the people who were on an airplane over the ocean when they snapped I feel sorry for.

Kevin Feige said that the people who could have died in accidents when they were snapped were put somewhere safe instead as that's what Smart Hulk wished for.

What about the people who died because the pilots got snapped from the planes they were in. :cry:

Hypes wrote:They haven't specifically shown anyone coming back from the snap have they?

Did you not see the hospital scene in Wandavision?

Corazon de Leon

Tomous wrote:It's the people who were on an airplane over the ocean when they snapped I feel sorry for.

Neutral Milk Hotel’s song about being in an Aeroplane Over The Sea takes on a very dark meaning in this context.

Qikz wrote:
PatSharpsMullet wrote:
Tomous wrote:It's the people who were on an airplane over the ocean when they snapped I feel sorry for.

Kevin Feige said that the people who could have died in accidents when they were snapped were put somewhere safe instead as that's what Smart Hulk wished for.

What about the people who died because the pilots got snapped from the planes they were in.

They were snapped another way.

Qikz wrote:
Hypes wrote:They haven't specifically shown anyone coming back from the snap have they?

Did you not see the hospital scene in Wandavision?

I misremembered what way round that was :fp:

Does anyone actually know someone who's been snapped? It's all fake, wake up sheeple!

Hypes wrote:They haven't specifically shown anyone coming back from the snap have they?

Spider-man: Far from Home showed a highschool when the people came back, IIRC.

Victor Mildew wrote:Watched the finale last night and can't say I thought the series was anything other than OK.

Agreed. The flag smashers weren't great villains and it felt a bit underwhelming tbh. The Zemo eps were the best part of the series. Also, thought the Bucky storyline was a lot stronger than Falcon's.

The character and emotional elements of this were much better than the action for me, partly that was down to the half baked core antagonists but also I think a fair amount of the action sequences fell a bit flat compared to what we get in the movies.

Overall it was solid though and it's nice to see the development of some of these characters tick along further with a bit more time for reflection.

Power broker stuff was crap though

I think coronavirus actually did the series a favour, that virus plotline would have made the flag smashers a lot more cartoonishly villainous and their cause would have been way less sympathetic. With the focus on just dealing with the people responsible for the decision-making around resettlement it led to much greyer morality, i.e justifying the violence against the hostage senators because of the violence that those senators enact on refugees/resettled people through decisions to deny aid or forcibly relocate them. Instead of just ending up with a very silly "look at these evil anarchists trying to kill everyone" that the virus thing would have led to they got to have a lot more nuance. Considering this is Disney I was also very surprised with Sam's big speech being so direct with confronting how western governments' actions overseas create instability and suffering which then feeds into the growth of terrorist organisations.

Politics aside I think it was a good finale but felt like it didn't quite resolve a few of its plotlines. Sam as Cap is great, I particularly liked the big spinny shield throw he did to take out the helicopter pilot and also the traditional "get really small and hide behind the shield" manouevre that Steve always used but now with added wings.
I agree with others that Sharon as the power broker felt very underdeveloped, it was somehow both extremely obvious and completely unexplained. I also felt like they didn't deal with Walker particularly well, he demonstrated in previous episodes that he was clearly out of control and not to be trusted with the amount of power he now has from the serum, yet Sam and Bucky kind of just started working with him no questions asked and didn't have any sort of confrontation with him continuing to use the Captain America image and damaging the legacy of their best friend. The US Agent stuff also felt bolted on for the sake of setting it up in future films, didn't really add anything to the story otherwise.
Also RIP Batroc, was hoping he'd get more screentime. He's one of my favourite minor villains in the MCU, his fight in TWS is just fantastic.

I think one issue with the action sequences was they had to stretch a movie budget over twice the standard runtime.

Having said that though, some of the sequences could have been better written.

The Falcon and The Winter Soldier | Disney+ | 1st Episode OUT NOW

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