The Football Thread 2018-19 - This is the end.

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Photek
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Photek » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:02 pm

I can't see how United can feasibly get rid of, Jones, Smalling, Young, Martial, Fred and Sanchez as they all signed new contracts or just joined.

No one will buy them on their wages...

Sanchez is earning 4 times what Van Dijk is.

Last edited by Photek on Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jamo3103
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Jamo3103 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:03 pm

Thought we started quite well, first 20-30 minutes or so we had a high intensity and were trying to do something but even then it was very clearly us playing at our best and City not even coming out of first gear. As soon as we ran out of Steam it was easy for City and we didn't really put up any sort of fight. De Gea poor once again but nobody really comes out of that with much credit. Top 4 still achievable but hopes increasingly slim, 6th still the most probable outcome.

Lot of work to be done over the next few years if we're going to get back to competing for titles again. Desire, ability and fitness all hugely in question with this squad.

At least this defeat has a silver lining.

Last edited by Jamo3103 on Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Preezy
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Preezy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 pm

Well that was gooseberry fool.

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Photek
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Photek » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:05 pm

Jamo3103 wrote:At least this defeat has a silver lining.

That you'll be in the Europa League? I guess you're right.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Jamo3103 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:11 pm

Photek wrote:
Jamo3103 wrote:At least this defeat has a silver lining.

That you'll be in the Europa League? I guess you're right.


Better anthem and teams more on our level, what's not to love?

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by PES Fan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:18 pm

Keanes punditry has been great.

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Jamo3103
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Jamo3103 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 pm

Keano has been fantastic and he's absolutely spot on with his assessment of the players. If the entire team had a tenth of the desire (or ability for that matter) that he had as a player then we'd be far better off.

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KingK
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by KingK » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:32 pm

Keano!

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by PES Fan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:33 pm

twitter.com/sportsmanstats/status/1121149587429969922


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Tomous
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Tomous » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Lingard isn't really good enough for United is he? He's obviously a decent enough professional that they keep around in the squad but that's not nearly his level.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Preezy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:41 pm

I await the Denster-shaped Lingard Defence Force to make an appearance.

United now haven't scored from open play in 5 games.

Lukaku - gooseberry fool
Rashford - gooseberry fool
Sanchez - gooseberry fool
Lingard - gooseberry fool
Pogba - gooseberry fool
Martial - gooseberry fool

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Jamo3103
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by Jamo3103 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:48 pm

Stats obviously don't tell the full story and Sterling is playing in a much better team but there's no denying that he's many levels above Lingard. Lingard could possibly be a decent squad player for United but he's certainly not good enough to be starting regularly if we have any ambition. I think that's something that could be said of most of the players who start regularly for United to be honest.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - Manc Derby TONIGHT
by pjbetman » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:47 am

TigaSefi wrote:
Corazon de Leon wrote:Don't think City will drop any more points now to be honest.


At the time of the last draw. (Everton) I said I couldn’t see Man City losing a single point to the end of the season.


That's because youre a pessimist.

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Denster
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by Denster » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:22 am

Lingards definitely been sub par for the last few games. No defending that. There's worst offenders though. Starting with the guy between the sticks.

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Harry Ola
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by Harry Ola » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:29 am

Have to say the silver lining of not doing Liverpool a favour feels pretty hollow this morning.

We are miles away from our two fiercest rivals and we are a long way from getting anywhere near.

We need someone to put in place a 5 year project, building a team and style over the medium not short term. It's the sort of role Pochetino would be made for, but that's not happening. Need Director of Football and the best available very quickly.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by Herdanos » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:01 am

I'm starting to wonder whether the issue with Man Utd is the approach the entire club has towards itself, and the associated pressure that brings. Simply calling the players gooseberry fool, when we've seen before that they aren't, doesn't solve the issue.

Moyes tried to temper expectations and was slaughtered for it. He of course had also inherited half a squad only used to Ferguson and surprised by his approach, which didn't help him. But everyone since has concurred with the mindset that simply by being Manchester United should somehow prove an advantage/inspiration, without taking into account the unenviable pressure that position brings.

The biggest stadium in British club football; the most-supported club; the most social media activity surrounding games; massive telly audiences; fans at games demanding both results and performances; a ruthless media apparently unwilling to accept rebuilding and instead desperate to coronate the next messiah.

Van Gaal and. Mourinho constantly played up their credentials and previous successes and insisted that this made them the right man for the big job. But everywhere else, managers have downplayed the bigness of the job... a manager pushing the ethos "I've proven myself and earned my place here, have you?" doesn't help alleviate pressure on players. Even Solskjaer is becoming guilty of this now his honeymoon is over with statements like "that wasn't good enough for Manchester United". Well, Ole, maybe not, but will telling the world that inspire a response from your group? Ferguson blamed anyone else: refs, grounds, pitches, opposition players or supporters - but he'd keep the internal criticism of his players internal.

Look at how other managers have dealt with the pressure. Guardiola stressed how tough the job would be and asked for patience and now his side are primed to retain the league - and he's still pointing out the job isn't done yet. Klopp talks at length about taking it one game at a time and has stressed previously that there's no expectation on his side. He may yet end the season without silverware but with an incredible points haul for a runner up and perhaps a second consecutive CL final - not bad for a side also with an overwhelming sense of expectation, and one that's been cooking a couple decades' longer.

Pellegrini came to Man City with the same relaxed, no-pressure approach and it got the best out of his players. Hell, even Mourinho pre-United talked down his Chelsea team as ''little horses!" But at United it isn't like that. No other team can ever be the favourite. Thinking anything other than winning everything is anathema. Expecting the absolute best is encouraged, even when it's entirely unrealistic, and creates a culture where the players are overwhelmed by expectation, fearful of failure, and crushed by the pressure.

And "gooseberry fool" players? United have tried clearing out already since Ferguson. Di Maria clearly wasn't gooseberry fool. Binned Blind now bosses the defence of the most exciting team in Europe. Hernandez and Welbeck might not exactly be superstars but they're ahead of the likes of Lingard and McTominay. Clearing through the current squad won't achieve anything - Pogba's a world cup winner, Lukaku a proven talent (who sadly as a large black man seems more susceptible to criticism than if a large white counterpart were to experience the same perceived occasional "failings"), Sanchez led Chile to the Copa America at the expense of one Leo Messi.

Claiming every poor performance isn't good enough for the standards of your club achieves nothing; it just crushes the confidence of your players. Be realistic, be positive, accept the gap, and look to close it long-term.

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Photek
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by Photek » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:20 am

Harry Ola wrote:We need someone to put in place a 5 year project, building a team and style over the medium not short term. It's the sort of role Pochetino would be made for, but that's not happening.

This.
I'm so glad Ole's at the wheel.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by Lotus » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:55 am

Pogba in the PFA Team of the Season. :lol: :fp: :dread:
Would rather Liverpool win the title than Man City, but it's City's to lose now really.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by Preezy » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:30 am

Harry Ola wrote:Need Director of Football and the best available very quickly.

Or Mike Phelan, whatever's cheapest easiest best.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2018-19 - United in freefall
by PES Fan » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:22 pm

THIS BAD BOY STEALS POINTS wrote:I'm starting to wonder whether the issue with Man Utd is the approach the entire club has towards itself, and the associated pressure that brings. Simply calling the players gooseberry fool, when we've seen before that they aren't, doesn't solve the issue.

Moyes tried to temper expectations and was slaughtered for it. He of course had also inherited half a squad only used to Ferguson and surprised by his approach, which didn't help him. But everyone since has concurred with the mindset that simply by being Manchester United should somehow prove an advantage/inspiration, without taking into account the unenviable pressure that position brings.

The biggest stadium in British club football; the most-supported club; the most social media activity surrounding games; massive telly audiences; fans at games demanding both results and performances; a ruthless media apparently unwilling to accept rebuilding and instead desperate to coronate the next messiah.

Van Gaal and. Mourinho constantly played up their credentials and previous successes and insisted that this made them the right man for the big job. But everywhere else, managers have downplayed the bigness of the job... a manager pushing the ethos "I've proven myself and earned my place here, have you?" doesn't help alleviate pressure on players. Even Solskjaer is becoming guilty of this now his honeymoon is over with statements like "that wasn't good enough for Manchester United". Well, Ole, maybe not, but will telling the world that inspire a response from your group? Ferguson blamed anyone else: refs, grounds, pitches, opposition players or supporters - but he'd keep the internal criticism of his players internal.

Look at how other managers have dealt with the pressure. Guardiola stressed how tough the job would be and asked for patience and now his side are primed to retain the league - and he's still pointing out the job isn't done yet. Klopp talks at length about taking it one game at a time and has stressed previously that there's no expectation on his side. He may yet end the season without silverware but with an incredible points haul for a runner up and perhaps a second consecutive CL final - not bad for a side also with an overwhelming sense of expectation, and one that's been cooking a couple decades' longer.

Pellegrini came to Man City with the same relaxed, no-pressure approach and it got the best out of his players. Hell, even Mourinho pre-United talked down his Chelsea team as ''little horses!" But at United it isn't like that. No other team can ever be the favourite. Thinking anything other than winning everything is anathema. Expecting the absolute best is encouraged, even when it's entirely unrealistic, and creates a culture where the players are overwhelmed by expectation, fearful of failure, and crushed by the pressure.

And "gooseberry fool" players? United have tried clearing out already since Ferguson. Di Maria clearly wasn't gooseberry fool. Binned Blind now bosses the defence of the most exciting team in Europe. Hernandez and Welbeck might not exactly be superstars but they're ahead of the likes of Lingard and McTominay. Clearing through the current squad won't achieve anything - Pogba's a world cup winner, Lukaku a proven talent (who sadly as a large black man seems more susceptible to criticism than if a large white counterpart were to experience the same perceived occasional "failings"), Sanchez led Chile to the Copa America at the expense of one Leo Messi.

Claiming every poor performance isn't good enough for the standards of your club achieves nothing; it just crushes the confidence of your players. Be realistic, be positive, accept the gap, and look to close it long-term.


Don’t know why you suggesting the criticism Lukaku is getting because he is black. His first touch for a footballer is abysmal. No amount of coaching can fix that. It also doesn’t help when he comes out with stuff that he wants to play in Italy. How about focusing on scoring goals for your current club?

Sanchez accomplishments are great. Whose arguing that? But he’s past it and anybody who doesn’t even support Man Utd can see that. He’s not anywhere near the same player that he was for Arsenal. He’s on very big money and has done very little.

Di Maria wasn’t cleared out. He was begging to leave himself, so what do you want us to do? Keep a unhappy player. He never wanted to join us originally and PSG had FFP issues at the time so couldn’t buy him. He couldn’t wait to bail out.

Hernandez was good under Fergie. But he can’t even start for West Ham regularly. Good inside the box but very average outside it. Fergie made average players like him world beaters. But Fergies not around. Welbeck was cleared out and he’s not done much since leaving besides getting injured constantly.

The only player we should have kept longer was Zaha. We barely gave him a chance.

The issue is recruitment has been very average and we need to get a director of football with a vision rather than signing different managers with different playing styles who then sign different players. I rather go for someone like Paul Mitchell rather than promoting someone in house. The club needs a fresh face to be in charge of recruitment. We need to get away from Ferguson. What made Ferguson great cannot be replicated. He made average players look world class.


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