The Football Thread 2019/20: Barcelona will have 2-8 till next season to avenge this embarrassment

[SandyCoin]

Defeat against Liverpool and Ole is gone, surely?

I assume he'll be gone before hand in the hope of a "new manager syndrome" revival. At present this team is not going to stand a chance against Liverpool.

At least 4-0, seeing as we can't seem to have a shot on target anymore.

[Tomous]

The brilliance of Ferguson must have been papering over some pretty hefty cracks, there's no way that a string of sub-par managers are responsible for the current state of United.

Winning that final league trophy with the squad he had may have been his best achievement as a manager.

[Jamo3103]

That was predictable. 2 points off the relegation zone now. I was expecting this season to be bad but not this bad! Absolutely horrible performance too, Fred in particular is just an utterly useless footballer, makes Djemba Djemba look like a world beater.

To be honest I'm all for relegation now. It's our best shot at getting the Glazer's out and the few remaining glory hunters while we're at it. We'll get a Derby against Leeds next season and it will also take some attention away from Liverpool winning the league. Not only that but it will give us our best shot at silverware when we win promotion from League One in the 22/23 season. Bring it on!

What if they get promoted though.

Defeat against Liverpool and Ole is gone, surely?

It's Leeds though, they'll find some way to mess it up. Surely

Defeat against Liverpool is inevitable but a bit like Mourinho last year it seems like it's the kind of game that he'd be sacked after, you'd just be setting any new manager up for a losing start if you got rid before the Liverpool game. Also a very real chance that defeat against Liverpool will leave us in the relegation zone.

[Abacus]

Newcastle fan here, and absolutely disgusted with that Man U performance.

You've kept Steve Shambles Bruce in a job until at least January with that, playing against the worst team in the league, you utter hopeless spineless scumbags. You should be beating that festering lack-brain 10-0 every day of the week.

Total disgrace. Burn it all down. Burn everything down.

[Captain Kinopio]

For a few years I revelled in it, I was so bored of the relentless success of Ferguson, but I think it's a shame for the PL if United aren't fighting at the top. The recent United vs Arsenal game was depressing, what a great rivalry that used to be.

strawberry float that, United can stay in the bin.

Potentially the most concerning for United fans, I would think, is that the board may have finally settled on the right approach in a long term view of promoting youth, not making snap and clearing out gold diggers. However they've possibly got the wrong person to over see it, putting them on a lengthy multiple year journey to, well, nowhere.

[Winckle]

This was the perfect weekend of football. Right down to timing my half time beer run at Anfield perfectly, and the amazing shithouse last minute penalty.

[Jamo3103]

For a few years I revelled in it, I was so bored of the relentless success of Ferguson, but I think it's a shame for the PL if United aren't fighting at the top. The recent United vs Arsenal game was depressing, what a great rivalry that used to be.

strawberry float that, United can stay in the bin.

Potentially the most concerning for United fans, I would think, is that the board may have finally settled on the right approach in a long term view of promoting youth, not making snap and clearing out gold diggers. However they've possibly got the wrong person to over see it, putting them on a lengthy multiple year journey to, well, nowhere.

As soon as the money stops coming in the Glazer's will jump ship like the rats they are. If they've dug their own grave then that's brilliant, the noodle sponsors will soon dry up when we're languishing in the Championship.

[Tomous]

This was the perfect weekend of football. Right down to timing my half time beer run at Anfield perfectly, and the amazing shithouse last minute penalty.

The season so far feels like we’re living in a Liverpool fan’s wet dream.

Liverpool are great and win even when they’re not.
United are awful (even by their recent standards)
Everton are awful.
And strawberry float knows what City are doing.

[Herdanos]

I stand by my assessment from April:

Subject: The Football Thread 2018-19 - This is the end.

I'm starting to wonder whether the issue with Man Utd is the approach the entire club has towards itself, and the associated pressure that brings. Simply calling the players gooseberry fool, when we've seen before that they aren't, doesn't solve the issue.

Moyes tried to temper expectations and was slaughtered for it. He of course had also inherited half a squad only used to Ferguson and surprised by his approach, which didn't help him. But everyone since has concurred with the mindset that simply by being Manchester United should somehow prove an advantage/inspiration, without taking into account the unenviable pressure that position brings.

The biggest stadium in British club football; the most-supported club; the most social media activity surrounding games; massive telly audiences; fans at games demanding both results and performances; a ruthless media apparently unwilling to accept rebuilding and instead desperate to coronate the next messiah.

Van Gaal and. Mourinho constantly played up their credentials and previous successes and insisted that this made them the right man for the big job. But everywhere else, managers have downplayed the bigness of the job... a manager pushing the ethos "I've proven myself and earned my place here, have you?" doesn't help alleviate pressure on players. Even Solskjaer is becoming guilty of this now his honeymoon is over with statements like "that wasn't good enough for Manchester United". Well, Ole, maybe not, but will telling the world that inspire a response from your group? Ferguson blamed anyone else: refs, grounds, pitches, opposition players or supporters - but he'd keep the internal criticism of his players internal.

Look at how other managers have dealt with the pressure. Guardiola stressed how tough the job would be and asked for patience and now his side are primed to retain the league - and he's still pointing out the job isn't done yet. Klopp talks at length about taking it one game at a time and has stressed previously that there's no expectation on his side. He may yet end the season without silverware but with an incredible points haul for a runner up and perhaps a second consecutive CL final - not bad for a side also with an overwhelming sense of expectation, and one that's been cooking a couple decades' longer.

Pellegrini came to Man City with the same relaxed, no-pressure approach and it got the best out of his players. Hell, even Mourinho pre-United talked down his Chelsea team as ''little horses!" But at United it isn't like that. No other team can ever be the favourite. Thinking anything other than winning everything is anathema. Expecting the absolute best is encouraged, even when it's entirely unrealistic, and creates a culture where the players are overwhelmed by expectation, fearful of failure, and crushed by the pressure.

And "gooseberry fool" players? United have tried clearing out already since Ferguson. Di Maria clearly wasn't gooseberry fool. Binned Blind now bosses the defence of the most exciting team in Europe. Hernandez and Welbeck might not exactly be superstars but they're ahead of the likes of Lingard and McTominay. Clearing through the current squad won't achieve anything - Pogba's a world cup winner, Lukaku a proven talent (who sadly as a large black man seems more susceptible to criticism than if a large white counterpart were to experience the same perceived occasional "failings"), Sanchez led Chile to the Copa America at the expense of one Leo Messi.

Claiming every poor performance isn't good enough for the standards of your club achieves nothing; it just crushes the confidence of your players. Be realistic, be positive, accept the gap, and look to close it long-term.

[Psychic]

I think it's just down to the club still failing to put any real structure in place to replace the void that Fergie retiring created. With his tenure and success, it was inevitable he'd become somewhat embedded into the club and how it operated at most levels. The fact so little has been done to try and offer some sort of clear philosophy of what the clubs goals are and how it's going to accomplish them seems to be the issue to me. Everything else stems from there.

[pjbetman]

I fully expect Olé to be gone before Christmas but I wouldn't even fancy Klopp or Guardiola to turn United back into contenders.

This. I don’t think Ole is the right fit but no matter who you get they’d be hamstrung, you could argue Pep or Klopp wouldn’t actually take the job under the circumstances as both have been backed from Day 1 at Liverpool and City.

Pep or Klopp wouldn't take the job under any circumstances. Jamo wasn't suggesting they would, but IF they did...

[pjbetman]

What a wonderful day for football.

I dont think i've ever seen Liverpol win and ALL their rivals/challengers losing - Spurs, Everton, Man City and Man U.

[pjbetman]

That was predictable. 2 points off the relegation zone now. I was expecting this season to be bad but not this bad! Absolutely horrible performance too, Fred in particular is just an utterly useless footballer, makes Djemba Djemba look like a world beater.

To be honest I'm all for relegation now. It's our best shot at getting the Glazer's out and the few remaining glory hunters while we're at it. We'll get a Derby against Leeds next season and it will also take some attention away from Liverpool winning the league. Not only that but it will give us our best shot at silverware when we win promotion from League One in the 22/23 season. Bring it on!

What if they get promoted though.

Defeat against Liverpool and Ole is gone, surely?

It's Leeds though, they'll find some way to mess it up. Surely

Defeat against Liverpool is inevitable but a bit like Mourinho last year it seems like it's the kind of game that he'd be sacked after, you'd just be setting any new manager up for a losing start if you got rid before the Liverpool game. Also a very real chance that defeat against Liverpool will leave us in the relegation zone.

I dunno, 6 teams below them have to overtake them. But 2 more games...very good chance.

[pjbetman]

Newcastle fan here, and absolutely disgusted with that Man U performance.

You've kept Steve Shambles Bruce in a job until at least January with that, playing against the worst team in the league, you utter hopeless spineless scumbags. You should be beating that festering lack-brain 10-0 every day of the week.

Total disgrace. Burn it all down. Burn everything down.

What if....Steve Bruce gets Ole's job?!!

[Rog]

That one moment of United fans living in the past and pushing for Ole to become permanent has caused them so much more misery than they would have had to endure by just waiting to reassess and find the right person. Nostalgia and wanting instant success being the reason they've fallen so much further than they had to is delicious. Being a dick aside it is fascinating to see that such a huge money making business actually listened to their fans and gave them what they want. That pretty much never happens in any area of business and probably never will again because of how badly that one decision has hurt them.

[pjbetman]

I stand by my assessment from April:

Subject: The Football Thread 2018-19 - This is the end.

I'm starting to wonder whether the issue with Man Utd is the approach the entire club has towards itself, and the associated pressure that brings. Simply calling the players gooseberry fool, when we've seen before that they aren't, doesn't solve the issue.

Moyes tried to temper expectations and was slaughtered for it. He of course had also inherited half a squad only used to Ferguson and surprised by his approach, which didn't help him. But everyone since has concurred with the mindset that simply by being Manchester United should somehow prove an advantage/inspiration, without taking into account the unenviable pressure that position brings.

The biggest stadium in British club football; the most-supported club; the most social media activity surrounding games; massive telly audiences; fans at games demanding both results and performances; a ruthless media apparently unwilling to accept rebuilding and instead desperate to coronate the next messiah.

Van Gaal and. Mourinho constantly played up their credentials and previous successes and insisted that this made them the right man for the big job. But everywhere else, managers have downplayed the bigness of the job... a manager pushing the ethos "I've proven myself and earned my place here, have you?" doesn't help alleviate pressure on players. Even Solskjaer is becoming guilty of this now his honeymoon is over with statements like "that wasn't good enough for Manchester United". Well, Ole, maybe not, but will telling the world that inspire a response from your group? Ferguson blamed anyone else: refs, grounds, pitches, opposition players or supporters - but he'd keep the internal criticism of his players internal.

Look at how other managers have dealt with the pressure. Guardiola stressed how tough the job would be and asked for patience and now his side are primed to retain the league - and he's still pointing out the job isn't done yet. Klopp talks at length about taking it one game at a time and has stressed previously that there's no expectation on his side. He may yet end the season without silverware but with an incredible points haul for a runner up and perhaps a second consecutive CL final - not bad for a side also with an overwhelming sense of expectation, and one that's been cooking a couple decades' longer.

Pellegrini came to Man City with the same relaxed, no-pressure approach and it got the best out of his players. Hell, even Mourinho pre-United talked down his Chelsea team as ''little horses!" But at United it isn't like that. No other team can ever be the favourite. Thinking anything other than winning everything is anathema. Expecting the absolute best is encouraged, even when it's entirely unrealistic, and creates a culture where the players are overwhelmed by expectation, fearful of failure, and crushed by the pressure.

And "gooseberry fool" players? United have tried clearing out already since Ferguson. Di Maria clearly wasn't gooseberry fool. Binned Blind now bosses the defence of the most exciting team in Europe. Hernandez and Welbeck might not exactly be superstars but they're ahead of the likes of Lingard and McTominay. Clearing through the current squad won't achieve anything - Pogba's a world cup winner, Lukaku a proven talent (who sadly as a large black man seems more susceptible to criticism than if a large white counterpart were to experience the same perceived occasional "failings"), Sanchez led Chile to the Copa America at the expense of one Leo Messi.

Claiming every poor performance isn't good enough for the standards of your club achieves nothing; it just crushes the confidence of your players. Be realistic, be positive, accept the gap, and look to close it long-term.

Spot on that.

I cringe when people criticise the players, saying they're crap, no good, sell them etc. These players are amongst the elite of world football - there aren't many better players out there. Players underpeform for hundreds of reasons, but the main one is how the manager and coaches organise, discipline, motivate, train and manage the players. Not that they're crap players. The skill of a manager is identifying the right players for each position, which is a woefully neglected skill even in this league.

[pjbetman]

I think it's just down to the club still failing to put any real structure in place to replace the void that Fergie retiring created. With his tenure and success, it was inevitable he'd become somewhat embedded into the club and how it operated at most levels. The fact so little has been done to try and offer some sort of clear philosophy of what the clubs goals are and how it's going to accomplish them seems to be the issue to me. Everything else stems from there.

Yep. They should've got Moyes in whilst Fergie was still there, and, effectively, coached Moyes in the 'United way'. Having a clean break like that was suicide. Moyes may not have succeeded, but he would've had a 10x better chance if he was seen to be part of Fergie's trusted team.

[Jamo3103]

That one moment of United fans living in the past and pushing for Ole to become permanent has caused them so much more misery than they would have had to endure by just waiting to reassess and find the right person. Nostalgia and wanting instant success being the reason they've fallen so much further than they had to is delicious. Being a dick aside it is fascinating to see that such a huge money making business actually listened to their fans and gave them what they want. That pretty much never happens in any area of business and probably never will again because of how badly that one decision has hurt them.

Honestly, it was nothing to do with giving the fans what they wanted, even if it was painted that way. It was the cheapest, easiest option for Woodward and the Glazers. Simple as that.

[Curls]

Dunno why people are saying Everton being bad is good for a Liverpool fan.

I like seeing Everton do well, it’s just the feeling isn’t mutual for Everton fans.

It’s like an annoying little brother who is jealous of you and wishes you bad, but you still want him to do well.

[justlexi]

Liverpool remains to be undefeated on Champions League I feel like they will keep a good rally this season.