The Football Thread 2019/20: #MoToo

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:21 am

PaperMacheMario wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:
PaperMacheMario wrote:VAR is just causing more problems than it’s solving. Both the offside and the pen were such pedantic decisions that wouldn’t be given without VAR, and it just takes too long to sort out. Would be so gooseberry fool being in the crowd while it’s all going on.

The offside could and probably would have absolutely been given without VAR, assistant refs have to make an educated guess on that kind of thing and generally they get it right. VAR is ruining the game only in the sense that it makes everyone realise the laws of football aren't that great and highlights the inconsistency of refereeing decisions.

Yeah, I’d agree that it probably would have been given without VAR - I guess I just mean that the whole reason it came in was for ‘clear and obvious errors’, and that’s not actually what it’s being used for at all. Assistant referees are advised to not put their flags up to let play continue so that it can be brought back, but when you then have to review the goal it’s impossible to know if the assistant referee would have flagged or not. And that would be irrelevant now, as it’s now in the hands of the ref and VAR team looking at the footage. If the assistant ref would not have given that offside, then should the goal have stood? On the other side of the coin, if the assistant ref does flag after it goes in but the player is shown to be marginally on then does the original decision stand as it wasn’t a ‘clear and obvious error’?

It’s also ruining the game in taking the ecstasy and emotion out of scoring/conceding, both for the fans and the players. Run it on an appeal system like in tennis or have it in complete control over the whole game. The halfway house way that it’s currently acting as just isn’t the solution.


Indeed, it’s difficult to now celebrate certain types of goal. If a team scores from a through ball instead of getting excited I’m instantly thinking is this going to VAR.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Preezy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:54 am

Preezy wrote:Brazil vs Argentina is on at 1.30am tonight. I'm not going to pretend that I'll be staying up to watch it but I'm fully anticipating another Argentinian collapse to a very ordinary looking Brazil side.

Called it.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Cuttooth » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:30 am

PaperMacheMario wrote:
Cuttooth wrote:
PaperMacheMario wrote:VAR is just causing more problems than it’s solving. Both the offside and the pen were such pedantic decisions that wouldn’t be given without VAR, and it just takes too long to sort out. Would be so gooseberry fool being in the crowd while it’s all going on.

The offside could and probably would have absolutely been given without VAR, assistant refs have to make an educated guess on that kind of thing and generally they get it right. VAR is ruining the game only in the sense that it makes everyone realise the laws of football aren't that great and highlights the inconsistency of refereeing decisions.

Yeah, I’d agree that it probably would have been given without VAR - I guess I just mean that the whole reason it came in was for ‘clear and obvious errors’, and that’s not actually what it’s being used for at all. Assistant referees are advised to not put their flags up to let play continue so that it can be brought back, but when you then have to review the goal it’s impossible to know if the assistant referee would have flagged or not. And that would be irrelevant now, as it’s now in the hands of the ref and VAR team looking at the footage. If the assistant ref would not have given that offside, then should the goal have stood? On the other side of the coin, if the assistant ref does flag after it goes in but the player is shown to be marginally on then does the original decision stand as it wasn’t a ‘clear and obvious error’?

It’s also ruining the game in taking the ecstasy and emotion out of scoring/conceding, both for the fans and the players. Run it on an appeal system like in tennis or have it in complete control over the whole game. The halfway house way that it’s currently acting as just isn’t the solution.

I don't understand why everyone omits "serious missed incidents" whenever they talk about VAR's purpose. It is only ever used for goals, penalties, red cards, and mistaken identity and realistically needs to be used during each instance of those otherwise you're using another level of subjectivity to 'correct' the ref's original subjective decision.

I can't see how VAR being used beyond those four things would be better overall if the flow of the game is already a concern, or what a team based quota achieves. In practice you'd either need a set amount to be used each match no matter what, like substitutions, which means you can't question the X+1 the game changing decision, or something like tennis where you only lose your challenge if you're 'wrong'. So you'd probably only use it on goals, penalties, and red cards.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Preezy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:42 am

Messi took the defeat gracefully, at least:

“They were not better than us. They found the net early and the second goal came from a penalty they didn’t award,” Messi told reporters.

“The officiating was crazy. There were clear penalties, on [Nicolas] Otamendi, on ‘Kun’ [Sergio Aguero].

“He [the referee] was on their side. In every divided ball or dispute, he inclined the pitch their way.

“They [the officials] had called a lot of bulls**t, but they didn’t even check the VAR, that’s unbelievable.

“That happened all over the game. At the first glance of contact, they ruled in their [Brazil’s] favour and this kind of bulls**t distracted us from the game.

“Throughout the tournament they called bulls**t handballs, bulls**t penalties, and bulls**t fouls. But somehow today, they refused to use VAR.

“There is no excuses for us, but we need to review this, analyse it and let’s hope CONMEBOL does something about it – but surely not, because Brazil commands too much power in the organisation.

“I spoke to the referee and he said he would respect us that he would look after us but at no moment did I see that.

“I think we played a great game. We made a great effort and they were not superior to us.”

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Drumstick » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:55 am

That's an obscene amount of salt.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Photek » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:58 am

Alisson Becker has won golden glove with a game to spare. No goals conceded. 8-)

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Tomous » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:03 am

Drumstick wrote:That's an obscene amount of salt.


A delightful amount :toot:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Lotus » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:08 am

Watched a bit of the match last night. Penalty was laughably poor, and whoever was at LB was awful.
Hopefully the constant talk of "the lionesses" will die down now. :dread:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:10 am

I may have my doubts about Messi being the absolute best footballer of the current generation, but he's certainly the reigning king of salt.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by KK » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:18 pm

Gary Lineker and Alan Shearer's salaries really do now look awful, don't they.

You could replace both with Mark Chapman, Gabby Logan, Alex Scott, Jason Mohammad, Dan Walker and countless others - including new faces - and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to Match of the Day or accompanying programming, because nobody is tuning in for the person reading the autocue or the pundtry (as long as it's not complete arse). Content is king.

Andy Gray and Richard Keys were football on Sky Sports. Until they weren't. Adrian Chiles was MOTD2, The One Show and ITV football. Until he wasn't.

If they don't want to accept £300,000, strawberry float 'em. These people are so replaceable it's not even funny. If BT want to piss a load of customer's money up the wall on Michael Owen and Robby Savage then that's up to them.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by PsychicSykes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:19 pm




I'd be mad at these not going to VAR too. The fact the first one had Brazil scoring about ten seconds later and would've been Alves's second yellow must have only wound them up more.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by <]:^D » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:25 pm

KK wrote:Gary Lineker and Alan Shearer's salaries really do now look awful, don't they.

You could replace both with Mark Chapman, Gabby Logan, Alex Scott, Jason Mohammad, Dan Walker and countless others - including new faces - and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to Match of the Day or accompanying programming, because nobody is tuning in for the person reading the autocue or the pundtry (as long as it's not complete arse). Content is king.

Andy Gray and Richard Keys were football on Sky Sports. Until they weren't. Adrian Chiles was MOTD2, The One Show and ITV football. Until he wasn't.

If they don't want to accept £300,000, strawberry float 'em. These people are so replaceable it's not even funny. If BT want to piss a load of customer's money up the wall on Michael Owen and Robby Savage then that's up to them.


totally agree apart from Gary Lineker - i love the guy. im sure id get used to a replacement but im not sure theyd do a better job.
for an example of some presenters not being easily replaced - Irish guy (cant remember his name!) who used to rule on Channel 5's NFL coverage got the MOTD2 gig and was pretty bad - did not get on well with the two pundits and was stilted - so its not always an easy swap in/out but i do broadly agree with you.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Moggy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:28 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48851152

Does anybody in England give a gooseberry fool that she celebrated by pretending to drink tea? If America think that’s a diss then they have no strawberry floating idea about what annoys us. :lol:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Cuttooth » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:31 pm

Moggy wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48851152

Does anybody in England give a gooseberry fool that she celebrated by pretending to drink tea? If America think that’s a diss then they have no strawberry floating idea about what annoys us. :lol:

It annoyed me that they thought it was some kind of masterclass trolling. :lol:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Poncho » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:32 pm

Lotus wrote:Watched a bit of the match last night. Penalty was laughably poor, and whoever was at LB was awful.
Hopefully the constant talk of "the lionesses" will die down now. :dread:


Hopefully this tournament generates even more discussion and coverage for women's football. And if it annoys a bunch of men who think the goals are too big or something, well then that's a bonus.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by KK » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:37 pm

Moggy wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48851152

Does anybody in England give a gooseberry fool that she celebrated by pretending to drink tea? If America think that’s a diss then they have no strawberry floating idea about what annoys us. :lol:

I thought it was bad enough our discourse keeps invoking World War 2, but here are the Americans deciding to go all the way back to 1773.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Photek » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:43 pm

Moggy wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48851152

Does anybody in England give a gooseberry fool that she celebrated by pretending to drink tea? If America think that’s a diss then they have no strawberry floating idea about what annoys us. :lol:

Well...seems you do give a gooseberry fool... :shifty:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Blue Eyes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:50 pm

Moggy wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48851152

Does anybody in England give a gooseberry fool that she celebrated by pretending to drink tea? If America think that’s a diss then they have no strawberry floating idea about what annoys us. :lol:

I found it funny and I was delighted she did it as it was bound to offend all the right people.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Preezy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:50 pm

She should apologise. No celebration without representation!

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2019/20: Rafa Bye-nitez
by Moggy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:52 pm

Photek wrote:
Moggy wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48851152

Does anybody in England give a gooseberry fool that she celebrated by pretending to drink tea? If America think that’s a diss then they have no strawberry floating idea about what annoys us. :lol:

Well...seems you do give a gooseberry fool... :shifty:


I can’t say I do, I am commenting on the story and was just wondering if anybody else cared that she pretended to drink tea. If anything it was a funny celebration that was ruined by her attempt to explain it as meaning something else.

The media might try and hype it up as some epic trolling, but it was nothing more than an amusing goal celebration.


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