The Football Thread 2020/21: Mods plz lock thnx bbz x

[Albert]

The fact that people will boo Black players making a statement against racism suggests there's still some merit to making a statement against racism.

I'm just not seeing what it really achieves beyond upsetting Mark and his mates (which admitedly is of value).

I dunno. Maybe I am the one being cynical and it is doing some good. If it's benefiting black players/people and these players want to do it to show their support then who am I to question it.

[Benzin]

I'm probably going to get bollocked for saying this, but I don't like the whole "taking the knee" thing.

When it all kicked off last year, I thought it had some merit, and showed some good community spirit/coming together against some of the worlds evils, but now it just kinda feels like a box ticking exercise now with little to no impact.

It all feels a bit cynical. Like if the Christmas Cola advert suddenly featured Santa taking a knee. I would much rather see other positive actions being implemented rather than a bunch of millionaires take a knee for a few seconds. Maybe more investment in grass roots football in poorer areas/lifetime bans across all stadiums for anyone proven to be shouting racism etc.

Please don't hurt me.

Anyway, I'm off film a video booing it so apologise if I don't reply.

I don't think it's wrong to have this view. Some players (Zaha I think being the most well known one?) have already stopped. Opting to stand instead.

It's clearly a question over what effect taking the knee has made. Which given the constant stream of abuse black players get every single week its not unfair to suggest that other avenues could be looked at now the awareness of the problem is more clear.

However that's not something for me, as a white man, to really suggest in finality as to whether taking the knee can be termed as a success. But the obvious idiots who are booing it say that it isn't. I'll never understand how people could do that, same for those who abuse players online.

[Albert]

However that's not something for me, as a white man, to really suggest in finality as to whether taking the knee can be termed as a success. But the obvious idiots who are booing it say that it isn't.

That's a good shout, and I guess sort of what I was aiming for with the below

I dunno. Maybe I am the one being cynical and it is doing some good. If it's benefiting black players/people and these players want to do it to show their support then who am I to question it.

[Ecno]

Villa fans must be pretty excited at the moment. Splashing the cash on Emi Buendia (you've got a bargain there), hopefully it works out better than your last Norwich purchase (Paul Lambert).

[gamerforever]

Villa are simply spending the Grealish money early before he heads off after the Euros. Smart thinking.

[Moggy]

I'm probably going to get bollocked for saying this, but I don't like the whole "taking the knee" thing.

When it all kicked off last year, I thought it had some merit, and showed some good community spirit/coming together against some of the worlds evils, but now it just kinda feels like a box ticking exercise now with little to no impact.

It all feels a bit cynical. Like if the Christmas Cola advert suddenly featured Santa taking a knee. I would much rather see other positive actions being implemented rather than a bunch of millionaires take a knee for a few seconds. Maybe more investment in grass roots football in poorer areas/lifetime bans across all stadiums for anyone proven to be shouting racism etc.

Please don't hurt me.

Anyway, I'm off film a video booing it so apologise if I don't reply.

I'm not going to shout at you and I agree there needs to be a lot more done.

But the players want to do it and they spend seconds doing it. It harms nobody and is a visual reminder of opposition to racism. It won't change anything, but there's still merit to doing it.

Also, the utter fools that are booing cannot be seen to "win". If the players stop because of the idiots and the racists, then those same idiots and racists will demand more.

[Dowbocop]

I would be so happy if Sterling, Rashford and Saka all combined for England's winning goal in the final so they ruin the victory for all the racists

[Tomous]

I would be so happy if Sterling, Rashford and Saka all combined for England's winning goal in the final so they ruin the victory for all the racists

It wouldn't bother them at all though.


Shut up and dribble

[Drumstick]

I personally don't think taking the knee is changing anything, but it isn't doing any harm, IMO. If it annoys the buffoons out there, great. If it causes them such outrage that they out themselves as racist bigots then even better.

If anything, with fans back in the stadium, it allows us to measure where the country stands on the issue of equality via the level of booing.

Villa are simply spending the Grealish money early before he heads off after the Euros. Smart thinking.

To Spurs???

[gamerforever]

I personally don't think taking the knee is changing anything, but it isn't doing any harm, IMO. If it annoys the buffoons out there, great. If it causes them such outrage that they out themselves as racist bigots then even better.

If anything, with fans back in the stadium, it allows us to measure where the country stands on the issue of equality via the level of booing.

Villa are simply spending the Grealish money early before he heads off after the Euros. Smart thinking.

To Spurs???

I think we are absolutely finished until ENIC sell up. I think one of the Manchester clubs.

[captain red dog]

Maybe there is a better way of doing it. I don't think it's great optics for millionaires working for big corpos to be seen to be lecturing fans on equality, although that is a bit unfair on them, I think that's a large part of why it's seen as so divisive. Not to mention that football still doesn't really practice diversity, along with most other European sports they are still run almost completely by white men.

I think taking the knee has been extremely successful in terms of highlighting terrible issues in our society, but I think now the campaign needs to change to one that brings fans along with it. Taking the knee has societal connotations that are negative for right or wrong, the message is clearly being misunderstood and it seems to be creating division now rather than unity.

I don't agree with the booing at all, but I don't believe that in the space of 12 months that football fans have suddenly become extremely racist. There are no doubt racists in the crowd, it's unrealistic to suggest that none of the fans are racist. I don't want to see a reverse situation where they are seen to stop taking the knee to appease racists. But I wonder if there is a different, more unifying act they can take to bring fans with them.

Kick It Out wasn't great, felt a bit like lip service, and was focused only on the football bubble, but generally the fans went along with it happily, and I did see the culture change considerably from the early 90s to just before lockdown. I think there could be a way forward that is much more popular, but how you get there without being seen to cave in to racism is difficult.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

I don't agree with the booing at all, but I don't believe that in the space of 12 months that football fans have suddenly become extremely racist.

I don't think it happened in the space of 12 months, either. They already were racist.

[Tomous]

Maybe there is a better way of doing it. I don't think it's great optics for millionaires working for big corpos to be seen to be lecturing fans on equality, although that is a bit unfair on them, I think that's a large part of why it's seen as so divisive. Not to mention that football still doesn't really practice diversity, along with most other European sports they are still run almost completely by white men.

I think taking the knee has been extremely successful in terms of highlighting terrible issues in our society, but I think now the campaign needs to change to one that brings fans along with it. Taking the knee has societal connotations that are negative for right or wrong, the message is clearly being misunderstood and it seems to be creating division now rather than unity.

I don't agree with the booing at all, but I don't believe that in the space of 12 months that football fans have suddenly become extremely racist. There are no doubt racists in the crowd, it's unrealistic to suggest that none of the fans are racist. I don't want to see a reverse situation where they are seen to stop taking the knee to appease racists. But I wonder if there is a different, more unifying act they can take to bring fans with them.

Kick It Out wasn't great, felt a bit like lip service, and was focused only on the football bubble, but generally the fans went along with it happily, and I did see the culture change considerably from the early 90s to just before lockdown. I think there could be a way forward that is much more popular, but how you get there without being seen to cave in to racism is difficult.

Are you saying they need to find a unifying act between the racist fans and the non-racist fans?

[Drumstick]

Maybe there is a better way of doing it. I don't think it's great optics for millionaires working for big corpos to be seen to be lecturing fans on equality

They aren't the people that have created the environment of inequality, so I see this as irrelevant.

Edit: Not to mention that racism and wealth divides aren't the same issue.

Taking the knee has societal connotations that are negative for right or wrong, the message is clearly being misunderstood and it seems to be creating division now rather than unity.

I would love to understand how and why you think the message is being misunderstood. I don't think "the message" could be more clear. The only people who might claim to misunderstand it are the wilfully ignorant.

I don't believe that in the space of 12 months that football fans have suddenly become extremely racist.

I agree. They've always been there, the difference is our culture has regressed into one where they feel that a) these views are acceptable, and b) it's alright to vocalise these views.

There are no doubt racists in the crowd, it's unrealistic to suggest that none of the fans are racist. I don't want to see a reverse situation where they are seen to stop taking the knee to appease racists. But I wonder if there is a different, more unifying act they can take to bring fans with them.

It's a wider societal issue. Football can only do so much, the change needs to be driven by government. Unfortunately, the current government are the ones that have shepherded us down the path where we now find ourselves.

[Cuttooth]

Racists tolerate non-white footballers as long as they stick to being performers. The instant someone speaks out about seeing racism or being racially abused they are a target because they've broken that unspoken pact and started being "political" by documenting their existence and experience outside of purely being a performer. This is something that happens across society and beyond sport or the entertainment industry.

Abuse isn't happening because the message is being misconstrued or it alone serves a limited use. There's abuse because there's a message in the first place.

They were still racist before twelve months ago, they were just a lot quieter about it.

[Parksey]

Ultimately, no-one cares about "getting political" when it's something they agree with.

People boo the kneeling not because they disagree with politics being brought into football, but because they feel (or have been told) that this is an overtly political stance that could threaten them in some way.

[DML]

I would argue booing the knee is in itself a very political act.

[Corazon de Leon]

I would argue booing the knee is in itself a very political act.

I think the point is that it's not political in the way that some of the people booing seem to think - these aren't footballers supporting Marxism, they're footballers supporting not having racist maths teachers DMing abuse to them when they lose a match.

[more heat than light]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but this is a nice touch in this age of Super League money-grabbing.

twitter.com/WFCOfficial/status/1401071287590658049

[Moggy]

I think taking the knee has been extremely successful in terms of highlighting terrible issues in our society, but I think now the campaign needs to change to one that brings fans along with it. Taking the knee has societal connotations that are negative for right or wrong, the message is clearly being misunderstood and it seems to be creating division now rather than unity.

I don't agree with the booing at all, but I don't believe that in the space of 12 months that football fans have suddenly become extremely racist. There are no doubt racists in the crowd, it's unrealistic to suggest that none of the fans are racist. I don't want to see a reverse situation where they are seen to stop taking the knee to appease racists. But I wonder if there is a different, more unifying act they can take to bring fans with them.

We should never appease the racists. Most fans aren't booing, there is no need to change anything as long as the players want to do it.

Kick It Out wasn't great, felt a bit like lip service, and was focused only on the football bubble, but generally the fans went along with it happily,

The racists didn't mind it because it was easy to ignore.