The Football Thread 2020/21: UCL is BACK!

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Drumstick » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:18 pm

Maguire :fp:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:27 pm

Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:
Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:£50million given to League 1 and 2. Sense at last.



Championship clubs excluded. I get it. Rich owners in the PL don't want to bail out rich owners in the Championship. There is going to be a few not in that situation who will struggle though.


Who? The situations can be in no way compared to the struggles of L1 and L2 clubs.


Eh? Why not? There are going to be Championship clubs relying on match day revenue that are going to struggle to make ends meet. Do you think every Championshion club has rich owners or something?


Coming up to the Championship could end up being the worst thing that ever happened to Wycombe.:dread:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Moggy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:39 pm

Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:
Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:£50million given to League 1 and 2. Sense at last.



Championship clubs excluded. I get it. Rich owners in the PL don't want to bail out rich owners in the Championship. There is going to be a few not in that situation who will struggle though.


Who? The situations can be in no way compared to the struggles of L1 and L2 clubs.


Eh? Why not? There are going to be Championship clubs relying on match day revenue that are going to struggle to make ends meet. Do you think every Championshion club has rich owners or something?


While it's true there are Championship clubs that rely on match day income, the difference in revenue between the Championship and L1/L2 is extraordinary.

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That's a couple of years old, but I doubt it's changed in favour of L1/L2.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Tomous » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:43 pm

Moggy wrote:
Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:
Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:£50million given to League 1 and 2. Sense at last.



Championship clubs excluded. I get it. Rich owners in the PL don't want to bail out rich owners in the Championship. There is going to be a few not in that situation who will struggle though.


Who? The situations can be in no way compared to the struggles of L1 and L2 clubs.


Eh? Why not? There are going to be Championship clubs relying on match day revenue that are going to struggle to make ends meet. Do you think every Championshion club has rich owners or something?


While it's true there are Championship clubs that rely on match day income, the difference in revenue between the Championship and L1/L2 is extraordinary.

Image

That's a couple of years old, but I doubt it's changed in favour of L1/L2.



Revenue doesn't tell the full story though, Championship clubs will have much higher wages against that revenue.

Also, don't forget the revenue figure is inflated by parachute payments, there is probably a few £100m going to a handful of ex PL clubs in Championship in that figure.

But don't get me wrong, much of the Championship will be okay. But there will be a handful of clubs in the same boat as L1/L2 clubs, which was the original point I was making.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Photek » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:45 pm

Tomous wrote:
Preezy wrote:Wait wait wait wait, let me get this straight - Man United vs Newcastle is going to be on TV on Saturday, but only on Sky Box Office pay per view?

Are they having a laugh? So people pay for Sky, pay extra for the sports package and now they have to pay even more to watch certain games?

Greedy bastards.


Welcome to last week ;)

It’s free for me as part of my Sky Sports Sub here on Premiere Sports (an Irish station)

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Moggy » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:50 pm

Tomous wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:
Tomous wrote:
DML wrote:£50million given to League 1 and 2. Sense at last.



Championship clubs excluded. I get it. Rich owners in the PL don't want to bail out rich owners in the Championship. There is going to be a few not in that situation who will struggle though.


Who? The situations can be in no way compared to the struggles of L1 and L2 clubs.


Eh? Why not? There are going to be Championship clubs relying on match day revenue that are going to struggle to make ends meet. Do you think every Championshion club has rich owners or something?


While it's true there are Championship clubs that rely on match day income, the difference in revenue between the Championship and L1/L2 is extraordinary.

Image

That's a couple of years old, but I doubt it's changed in favour of L1/L2.



Revenue doesn't tell the full story though, Championship clubs will have much higher wages against that revenue.

Also, don't forget the revenue figure is inflated by parachute payments, there is probably a few £100m going to a handful of ex PL clubs in Championship in that figure.

But don't get me wrong, much of the Championship will be okay. But there will be a handful of clubs in the same boat as L1/L2 clubs, which was the original point I was making.


And the Premier League will have even higher wages.

The TV distribution money differences are insane:

EFL clubs have started a discussion on a potential new approach to how revenue is distributed across the collective that, if adopted, could come into force from season 2019/20 onwards.

The proposals were presented to all 72 clubs at the Summer Conference 2018, and follows an agreement by the EFL Board that the matter of how the EFL shares the revenue it generates could be amended to increase the certainty of additional income for League One and League Two clubs if an agreed direction of travel can be reached.

The discussions considered the current distribution formula as outlined in the EFL’s Articles of Association and factored in the costs borne directly by teams in the Championship for Goal Line Technology and Select Group 2 Match Officials.

The opportunity to reassess the current model has arisen, in part, due to the need to determine how Domestic Streaming Revenue will be distributed in the long-term once the full value of the proposition is understood following its launch in 2018/19 and ahead of the new EFL broadcast deal coming into force in 2019/20.

Current projections for the distribution formula in 2019/20 based on the existing Articles, which are adjusted for RPI, have been calculated at 71.15% in the Championship, 17.16% in League One and 11.69% in League Two.

The EFL introduced two initial proposals that take into account the various income potential and expenditure factors and would look to fix the distribution formula at either the 2016/17 levels of 68.51% in the Championship, 18.7% League One and 12.79% in League Two OR move to a new split of 66.66% in the Championship, 20% in League One and 13.34% in League Two.

https://www.efl.com/news/2018/june/efl- ... 0-onwards/

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Corazon de Leon » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:37 pm

Scotland have somehow gone eight matches unbeaten despite being strawberry floating appalling to watch. :lol:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by DML » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:42 pm

Promotion to the Championship is a huge earner for any team that gets it. Isnt it in the top eight most watched leagues in the world? Theres plenty of cash there.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Lex-Man » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:49 pm

I thought that most of the Championship teams were struggling because they were paying near Prem levels of wages but weren't getting as much money in. Lower down the leagues things are a bit more sustainable although people are still struggling.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by DML » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:55 pm

Lex-Man wrote:I thought that most of the Championship teams were struggling because they were paying near Prem levels of wages but weren't getting as much money in. Lower down the leagues things are a bit more sustainable although people are still struggling.


Championship teams get infinite times more competition and TV money.

L1 and L2 are hugely reliant on one source of money - crowds of fans.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by a dan from grcade » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:48 pm

Drumstick wrote:Listening to TalkSport (yes, I know) on the way to dropping my kid off at nursery and it's infuriating. Talking about the likes of Mings, Grealish, Coady, Philips etc like this new crop of top-tier internationals, like they've cemented their places already, ignoring that some regular squad members were either given rests or have injuries.

They are all way down the pecking order. England do have a lot of options at the moment, which is good, but very few of them fit into a category titled "top-tier".


I know what you're getting at... but I'm not sure the pecking order is as robust as your post suggests; certainly not in the positions of the players you've mentioned.

Southgate (despite initially imposing himself as a manager capable of making the big decisions by dropping Rooney and Hart) won't drop Pickford, so GK is set.
You would presume Chilwell is 1st choice LB so long as he behaves himself.
Any sane person would have TAA at RB, but Gaz loves Walker and Trippier. So that's another three squad places gone.
Henderson is Liverpool captain so he's in.
Front three of Kane, Sterling and Sancho. Rashford MBE first choice replacement for any of them.

Outside of those players there aren't any givens. Henderson can't really play as the sole holding player. So ahead of Phillips you've only got Rice, who at international level certainly has been unconvincing. (Winks is more like Henderson - happy as a CM alongside a DM but uncomfortable holding solo.)
Ahead of Coady (who was good against Wales) you've got... Mings :lol: As he's been in and around the squad for a year now. Many of our other CB options that were previously established seem determined to sabotage their international chances.
And if our formation permits an attacking central midfield player then there's no reason Grealish shouldn't be first choice. Mount hasn't convinced me and is still very much a newbie. Barkley has made poor career choices. Maddison seems yesterday's man (Did he actually ever play for England?) Not too long ago it was a choice between Alli, Lingard or Cantwell for that role - none would be near the squad now. Loftus-Cheek should have gone out on loan 18 months ago, Hudson-Odoi should've pushed for his move to Germany. Foden messed up. And I think Southgate is genuinely a bit frightened by Shelvey.

I agree the new crop aren't established. But the question is... who is?

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Psychic » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:22 pm

What is that nonsense about Henderson in that post? Suggesting he's only in the England squad because he captains Liverpool and that he can't play the holding role?

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Anyway, aside from Hendo I think the central midfield options for England are a tad unpolished at this point plus lacking a bit in creativity, so I'd be more inclined to look consider how the rest of the team can make up for that. I don't think the team has been benefiting from the solidity that the 3-5-2 is supposed to offer so I'd switch to a 4-2-3-1. Doing so makes the most out of the current midfield options by making them a solid base for the rest of the team to play off, allowing the likes of Chilwell and Alexander-Arnold to push on more. Then you pick three from Mount, Rashford, Sterling, Sancho and Grealish to play off Kane and you're sorted.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by DML » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:39 pm

Imagine if we got a Scotland/England/Wales group next Nations League. :datass:

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Jenuall » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:39 am

Grealish should comfortably be a lock in this England lineup at the moment but Southgate seems to have a real issue with him for some reason.

I agree that Southgate has gone from being prepared to make big changes and pick the team based on form to being yet another England manager who has "his players" and refuses to budge on the selection even when it is strawberry floating obvious that they are no longer the right choices.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Ecno » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:51 am

a dan from grcade wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Listening to TalkSport (yes, I know) on the way to dropping my kid off at nursery and it's infuriating. Talking about the likes of Mings, Grealish, Coady, Philips etc like this new crop of top-tier internationals, like they've cemented their places already, ignoring that some regular squad members were either given rests or have injuries.

They are all way down the pecking order. England do have a lot of options at the moment, which is good, but very few of them fit into a category titled "top-tier".


I know what you're getting at... but I'm not sure the pecking order is as robust as your post suggests; certainly not in the positions of the players you've mentioned.

Southgate (despite initially imposing himself as a manager capable of making the big decisions by dropping Rooney and Hart) won't drop Pickford, so GK is set.
You would presume Chilwell is 1st choice LB so long as he behaves himself.
Any sane person would have TAA at RB, but Gaz loves Walker and Trippier. So that's another three squad places gone.
Henderson is Liverpool captain so he's in.
Front three of Kane, Sterling and Sancho. Rashford MBE first choice replacement for any of them.

Outside of those players there aren't any givens. Henderson can't really play as the sole holding player. So ahead of Phillips you've only got Rice, who at international level certainly has been unconvincing. (Winks is more like Henderson - happy as a CM alongside a DM but uncomfortable holding solo.)
Ahead of Coady (who was good against Wales) you've got... Mings :lol: As he's been in and around the squad for a year now. Many of our other CB options that were previously established seem determined to sabotage their international chances.
And if our formation permits an attacking central midfield player then there's no reason Grealish shouldn't be first choice. Mount hasn't convinced me and is still very much a newbie. Barkley has made poor career choices. Maddison seems yesterday's man (Did he actually ever play for England?) Not too long ago it was a choice between Alli, Lingard or Cantwell for that role - none would be near the squad now. Loftus-Cheek should have gone out on loan 18 months ago, Hudson-Odoi should've pushed for his move to Germany. Foden messed up. And I think Southgate is genuinely a bit frightened by Shelvey.

I agree the new crop aren't established. But the question is... who is?


Not sure Cantwell has ever been considered? Didn't even make the U21s this time round.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Buffalo » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:01 am

Jordan Henderson is the mackem Pirlo.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by Drumstick » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:32 am

If Southgate is sticking with his current formation then the following should be locks: TAA, Chilwell, Henderson, Kane and Sterling. One of Rashford and Sancho can fill the other position up top.

So that leave two CM spots and three CBs available.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Ronaldo's got the 'rona
by a dan from grcade » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:01 am

Psychic wrote:What is that nonsense about Henderson in that post? Suggesting he's only in the England squad because he captains Liverpool and that he can't play the holding role?

He can't play the holding role by himself. He doesn't at Liverpool and he's looked uncomfortable at any point when he's had to do so. His best position is as the roving ball player in a central three within a 4-3-3 at high tempo with marauding full backs. Everything about this system suits his game. But it only succeeds if there's a naturally defensive foil alongside him (Fabinho, Milner if deployed there, possibly Thiago?) or if he's one of a pair and both can alternate (so alongside Keita or Wijnaldum, again possibly Thiago), one of the two retaining position so the side can't get caught out on the break. Spending the entirety of a game in the holding role is not what Henderson does.

However, in terms of central midfielders, Henderson is far and away the obvious first choice for England now given his performances for his club, but the difficulty is finding a formation that suits him that also suits the team. Five at the back (a la the WC) works as you don't need a traditional holding player - but this means we can't play wide forwards, an area we are currently strong in. Southgate has been dallying with 433 and 343 but it's been a long time since we've seen a convincing performance from an England side as a whole.

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Project Big Picture gets the boot!
by Psychic » Thu Oct 15, 2020 12:46 pm

Not far off a third of Henderson's career has been in a deeper role and he's consistently made appearances there almost every season under Klopp. When Fabinho got injured last season Henderson dropped back into that deeper role and there was no drop-off in quality.

While I agree that his best role is slightly further forward, the idea that he can't play that holding role alone is wrong. I still wouldn't though with the current crop of England players available though.
Buffalo wrote:Jordan Henderson is the mackem Pirlo.

Pirlo is the Brescian Henderson. 8-)

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PostRe: The Football Thread 2020/21: Project Big Picture gets the boot!
by Lotus » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:35 pm

Another hilarious/depressing/baffling England match last night :dread: :fp:

> Southgate says he'll pick players based on form, not reputation
> Continues to select Pickford, Maguire, and Rashford, who've all had poor seasons so far

> Says he'll pick players based on form
> Keeps playing Sancho, who's been rubbish for England for ages
> Grealish gets MOTM in his full debut, then doesn't feature at all in the next two games

> Has a squad whose main strength is its attacking players
> Plays 8 defensive players (including GK)

> Had a system of playing 4-3-3 where we were scoring goals for fun, getting results, and people enjoyed watching
> Reverts to different formation with turgid, defensive football that bores everyone and doesn't get results

> Be 1-0 down and down to 10 men
> Swaps Rice for Henderson, thinking that will make a difference

> Finally takes Rashford off after 70-75 mins of being rubbish
> Replaces him with Calvert-Lewin playing out of position (again, why not Grealish?)

Feels like we actually have good, attacking players and some creativity, but Gary seems hell-bent on playing defensively and squandering all the positive assets in the squad.


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