The Hannivalia Crisis 1891 [AYAW] - The End (page 137)

Parksey, I disagree with you as well here. A key point is that I didn't know they were specials and I was far too paranoid to contact them in case they were the Alpha.

From my perspective, recalling my thoughts from at the time, I was very very nervous that Mommy and Herbi would die. I had already decided if that happened I would have tried to influence the enhanced seering ASAP so I could hopefully find a confirmed good special and quickly tell them all the information I had. This would have meant none of the Conformists died until day 7 (unless the thread landed one without my intel).

Trust for Mommy wouldn't have been solidified as it was, my communications network would have been totally destabilised and your filthy band of scumbags would have had much longer to exert your influence over the thread.

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Parksey, I disagree with you as well here. A key point is that I didn't know they were specials and I was far too paranoid to contact them in case they were the Alpha.

From my perspective, recalling my thoughts from at the time, I was very very nervous that Mommy and Herbi would die. I had already decided if that happened I would have tried to influence the enhanced seering ASAP so I could hopefully find a confirmed good special and quickly tell them all the information I had. This would have meant none of the Conformists died until day 7 (unless the thread landed one without my intel).

Trust for Mommy wouldn't have been solidified as it was, my communications network would have been totally destabilised and your filthy band of scumbags would have had much longer to exert your influence over the thread.

Think of it from our point of view though, Mommy has evidently used his vote rig so is clearly innocent (unless there were some crazy shenanigans going on), and Kinopio was perhaps even more trustworthy, as the idea of backup roles was unknown before the SSA passed and so it's not like it could have been a wolf claiming a generic vigi or witch doctor role. You obviously contacted Mommy and we had no reason to believe that most other specials wouldn't also have, and so you'd have a pretty big network of potential contacts. We felt you were going to be confident with at least using some of them in getting info out. And that would only come into play after wasting two nights killing Mommy and Kinopio (possibly 3 nights if we add Chris who had role claimed in thread as well).

As an extra point on this, Kinopio put forward the PMs act when we were expecting the IPA, so that took us by surprise and perhaps we'd have tried to off the potential mouthpieces before PMs came into effect, but it felt by that point it was too late. It may have been a different story if we'd killed Kinopio Night 2 straight after he role claimed but we decided that delaying the Acts was a higher priority, and then Day 3 you get another confirmed human in Mommy so that side of it started to run away from us very early on.

Big thanks to OR for running the game. I really enjoyed what I played, it was just unfortunate that my forum time has been minimal recently.

Zilnad wrote:Big thanks to OR for running the game. I really enjoyed what I played, it was just unfortunate that my forum time has been minimal recently.

Yeah yeah, whatever alpha

sawyerpip wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Parksey, I disagree with you as well here. A key point is that I didn't know they were specials and I was far too paranoid to contact them in case they were the Alpha.

From my perspective, recalling my thoughts from at the time, I was very very nervous that Mommy and Herbi would die. I had already decided if that happened I would have tried to influence the enhanced seering ASAP so I could hopefully find a confirmed good special and quickly tell them all the information I had. This would have meant none of the Conformists died until day 7 (unless the thread landed one without my intel).

Trust for Mommy wouldn't have been solidified as it was, my communications network would have been totally destabilised and your filthy band of scumbags would have had much longer to exert your influence over the thread.

Think of it from our point of view though, Mommy has evidently used his vote rig so is clearly innocent (unless there were some crazy shenanigans going on), and Kinopio was perhaps even more trustworthy, as the idea of backup roles was unknown before the SSA passed and so it's not like it could have been a wolf claiming a generic vigi or witch doctor role. You obviously contacted Mommy and we had no reason to believe that most other specials wouldn't also have, and so you'd have a pretty big network of potential contacts. We felt you were going to be confident with at least using some of them in getting info out. And that would only come into play after wasting two nights killing Mommy and Kinopio (possibly 3 nights if we add Chris who had role claimed in thread as well).

As an extra point on this, Kinopio put forward the PMs act when we were expecting the IPA, so that took us by surprise and perhaps we'd have tried to off the potential mouthpieces before PMs came into effect, but it felt by that point it was too late. It may have been a different story if we'd killed Kinopio Night 2 straight after he role claimed but we decided that delaying the Acts was a higher priority, and then Day 3 you get another confirmed human in Mommy so that side of it started to run away from us very early on.

Yep, I do understand both sides. With all considered I would still lean pretty solidly towards having silenced the 'all-but-confirmed' Villager roles.

I did wonder why other specials didn't contact Mommy so that our network could have built up. Until I think the day before the end, when Rula was brought in, it was literally just Mommy and me the entire way through. Mommy actively went about questioning people, some of whom eventually did ''come out', but it wasn't until late on (the point at which I posted the Bladeforce list) that we finally had a decent level of confidence in the other roles.

That said, I recall plenty of people posting to advise special roles not to contact Mommy. I can't remember, was that a Conformist strategy, or was it paranoid MPs?

That point about CK's trustworthiness is a good one that I don't think I fully appreciated at the time. I knew there were deputies because my deputy was mentioned in my role PM.

CK, I'm sorry if it came across that I didn't contact you because you weren't in a buddy circle or something like that. It wasn't the case (I've never been in a buddy group with Mommy before), I felt I should only choose one person, to minimise risk, and that I could play it that way because the Conformists could only kill once per night. If Mommy had been killed I would have gone straight to you.

The angst around Bladeforce makes me laugh. If the fact there were two Wolves and the Seer in it the entire time, and none of them got ousted as a result, doesn't make you realise it is just a bunch of mates talking utterly juvenile (but hilarious and loveable) bollocks to each other, I don't know what will .

Interesting that basically no other specials contacted Mommy, I guess that makes you picking us all out even more impressive as you didn't have a full list of claimed good roles to narrow your search! I'm not sure why they wouldn't have though, especially when it became clear he was working with the seer as it obviously would have given you more information to work with.

I guess it may have been more a wariness of Mommy giving that info out to other people? The only way Mommy would be a Conformist was if he took credit for a vote rig that wasn't his, but in which case the real vote rigger should have posted in thread or contacted CK. After killing Sprouty, or even Skarjo if you wanted to be super cautious, I think Mommy was clearly confirmed good and working with you so I can't think of many reasons for not getting in touch with him.

I think in the sign up thread it was mentioned by Orange that the game was projected to last two weeks. At a rate of two deaths a day (one lynching and one wolf kill), the earliest the wolves could win was within 2 weeks and 2 days, and this would require all of the wolves to still be alive at that point.

Without introducing additional village deaths, we mathematically could never get the majority we needed for a win.

Having had more time to think about it now, here's my idea on how additional deaths could have been introduced whilst maintaining the base rule set and without adding special events:

For every act passed by the town, the wolves should be given an additional kill that evening, perhaps even tiered depending on the 'strength' of the act (like an additional 2 kills for opening up PMs).

This might have worked thematically because the Duke was secretly on our side all along and the Act Passing process could have sufficiently been too demanding on the parliament's guards as a resource.

I loved all of Orange's design decisions, with the sole exception of a 'job for life' function and would happily play a tweaked game again.

sawyerpip wrote:Interesting that basically no other specials contacted Mommy, I guess that makes you picking us all out even more impressive as you didn't have a full list of claimed good roles to narrow your search! I'm not sure why they wouldn't have though, especially when it became clear he was working with the seer as it obviously would have given you more information to work with.

I guess it may have been more a wariness of Mommy giving that info out to other people? The only way Mommy would be a Conformist was if he took credit for a vote rig that wasn't his, but in which case the real vote rigger should have posted in thread or contacted CK. After killing Sprouty, or even Skarjo if you wanted to be super cautious, I think Mommy was clearly confirmed good and working with you so I can't think of many reasons for not getting in touch with him.

Yeah I agree. Imagine if everyone had contacted him straight away. I'd have not spent time investigating VlaSoul, or being paranoid about Falsey . As I say, most of them had done by the end but not until much later on and not without Mommy actively bringing them in by PM.

I'm sure this won't come as a surprise to anyone, but I remain hugely in favour of PMs. Even without a special role, I much prefer them to be in play. However I am certainly more than happy for us to go without them (say, every other game?), as there is clearly a substantial opposing view across the player base.

I think I probably prefer no PMs now.

Can't wait for Nun's game. Years in the making!

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I did wonder why other specials didn't contact Mommy so that our network could have built up. Until I think the day before the end, when Rula was brought in, it was literally just Mommy and me the entire way through.

Did they not? I know I did.
But then again Mommy seemed to play an utterly bizarre game as usual so I can see why people didn't trust him

Hypes wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I did wonder why other specials didn't contact Mommy so that our network could have built up. Until I think the day before the end, when Rula was brought in, it was literally just Mommy and me the entire way through.

Did they not? I know I did.
But then again Mommy seemed to play an utterly bizarre game as usual so I can see why people didn't trust him

I remember him telling me you had, can't quite remember when, think it was around the halfway mark? I'd argue there was no reason whatsoever not to trust him after he had delivered a Conformist and was clearly in contact with the Seer.

Thought my role was pretty pointless, bar being named/proving I was not a conformist as any role put up we would be bound to vote through.
Would have been interesting if the Conformity act had come up on the random pick. Could have won the game for the conformists!

Hypes wrote:it's the cliquey bullshit like "Bladeforce" that ruins it for everyone else.

They just hate us coz they ain't us

Seriously though, Bladeforce/sexygang is not the all-powerful council of elders that you imagine it to be. More like a bunch of horny dudes rubbing up against each other in the dark

Hypes wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I did wonder why other specials didn't contact Mommy so that our network could have built up. Until I think the day before the end, when Rula was brought in, it was literally just Mommy and me the entire way through.

Did they not? I know I did.
But then again Mommy seemed to play an utterly bizarre game as usual so I can see why people didn't trust him

Yes, You, VlaSoul, SuperChris and Darkrula all contacted me but again I didn't tell them who OB was (other than OB coming out to Darkrula). I'd been BCCing OB in the PMs so maybe he thought I'd told Darkrula.
By announcing my role, there is a reason for the seer to contact me, by getting a couple of kills, there is more chance of specials coming forward.
By being nuts, the Conformists accept the distraction helps them. I thought I'd been much more sedate this time.

Preezy wrote:

Hypes wrote:it's the cliquey bullshit like "Bladeforce" that ruins it for everyone else.

They just hate us coz they ain't us

Seriously though, Bladeforce/sexygang is not the all-powerful council of elders that you imagine it to be. More like a bunch of horny dudes rubbing up against each other in the dark

But it helps to kill the game. You're discussing it by yourselves rather than in thread, which drops activity in the thread and stifles discussion amongst all the players

Mommy wrote:

Hypes wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I did wonder why other specials didn't contact Mommy so that our network could have built up. Until I think the day before the end, when Rula was brought in, it was literally just Mommy and me the entire way through.

Did they not? I know I did.
But then again Mommy seemed to play an utterly bizarre game as usual so I can see why people didn't trust him

Yes, You, VlaSoul, SuperChris and Darkrula all contacted me but again I didn't tell them who OB was (other than OB coming out to Darkrula). I'd been BCCing OB in the PMs so maybe he thought I'd told Darkrula.
By announcing my role, there is a reason for the seer to contact me, by getting a couple of kills, there is more chance of specials coming forward.
By being nuts, the Conformists accept the distraction helps them. I thought I'd been much more sedate this time.

Honestly, I think I'd have completely trusted you had Moggy not thought up that bizzare extra win condition

sawyerpip wrote:Interesting that basically no other specials contacted Mommy, I guess that makes you picking us all out even more impressive as you didn't have a full list of claimed good roles to narrow your search! I'm not sure why they wouldn't have though, especially when it became clear he was working with the seer as it obviously would have given you more information to work with.

I guess it may have been more a wariness of Mommy giving that info out to other people? The only way Mommy would be a Conformist was if he took credit for a vote rig that wasn't his, but in which case the real vote rigger should have posted in thread or contacted CK. After killing Sprouty, or even Skarjo if you wanted to be super cautious, I think Mommy was clearly confirmed good and working with you so I can't think of many reasons for not getting in touch with him.

I only didn't contact Mommy because I thought at that time I was being helpful enough in the thread that I didn't really need to come out and confirm to anyone who I was. Luckily Ob already seered me anyway, but then I got killed by those assholes before I could protect anyone.

Hypes wrote:

Mommy wrote:

Hypes wrote:

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:I did wonder why other specials didn't contact Mommy so that our network could have built up. Until I think the day before the end, when Rula was brought in, it was literally just Mommy and me the entire way through.

Did they not? I know I did.
But then again Mommy seemed to play an utterly bizarre game as usual so I can see why people didn't trust him

Yes, You, VlaSoul, SuperChris and Darkrula all contacted me but again I didn't tell them who OB was (other than OB coming out to Darkrula). I'd been BCCing OB in the PMs so maybe he thought I'd told Darkrula.
By announcing my role, there is a reason for the seer to contact me, by getting a couple of kills, there is more chance of specials coming forward.
By being nuts, the Conformists accept the distraction helps them. I thought I'd been much more sedate this time.

Honestly, I think I'd have completely trusted you had Moggy not thought up that bizzare extra win condition

Moggy's PM after I'd asked him to confirm the next Conformist in the thread...

Moggy wrote:I'm stunned it took you so long.

I'm in a bind here as you've sort of named me as a conformist in the thread. I don't know if that strawberry floats my win condition.

Let me check something with the Duke and I'll get back to you. If my win condition hasn't been voided, I might be more help than you could imagine.

So he started the win condition thing in a PM.
No chance were we falling for that, but he had a few people on board.