The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS

OrangeRakoon wrote:

Parksey wrote:The other problem is that the gameplay has always felt shonky and dated.

MGSV has the best and most refined gameplay of any third person shooter ever made

Yubel wrote:I very rarely break off from any games and that's only become even more of a rarity as the years go by. It really comes down to just a few key factors: I always know enough about what I'm getting into to say "this is my jam". Roughly 90% of games I end up purchasing, especially in the past couple of years, invite me to spend at least a solid month (or 5 if you're anything like BoTW or Horizon) of thorough investigation. And lastly there's the fact I just don't take as many risks - not only on new IP but on dipping my toe into already established franchises; Yakuza, Far Cry and Ace Combat being some that I'd recently been considering jumping on.

Anyways, the last game I gave up on was Kid Icarus: Uprising on the 3DS. I may feel inclined to give it another crack if it ever gets remastered on Switch.

Preezy wrote:

FudgeDiver wrote:

basically, to give you a rundown on why it becoming bizarre at the end is the reason the game is so good.

it opens with your expectations of Metal Gear Solid, you playing as Snake doing things like in MGS1, which is what the first part of the ruse is. But then part 2 comes, which is meant to be a recreation of the shadow moses incident, with Raiden playing the part of Snake, much like what is expected for a sequel.

But it's not, Raiden isn't Snake. But he plays almost exactly the same and fills the same role. But they're not the same. Even similar things aren't the same, like you fighting a Harrier and not a Hind. The fantastical is increased further, with the shamans and psychics of MGS1 replaced with a literal vampire and a woman who's so lucky she cannot be hurt (Which the game tries subverting, but still gives the whiff of it being there). Notably, Vamp himself is a callback to Liquid Snake never strawberry floating dying.

This recreation could be called as an attempt to create an in universe sequel, but it's not quite right, there's things missing and not right. The foremost being the protagonist for part 2 onwards, Raiden. He's set up as the protagonist replacing the 'dead' Snake, and his actor in the recreation. However, despite Raiden himself getting into the Snake role (even taking his name for a short while), he's definitely not Snake. He's a stand in for the player themself, a person living vicariously through videogames, pretending they're someone they're not. In Raiden's case, he thinks of himself as a legendary soldier, despite his only experience being VR, essentially videogames. Both Raiden and Player had fond memories of experiencing Shadow Moses themselves, despite not being there, they felt like they were. But, Raiden is controlled by the player and controlled to his whims, right down to his dogtags having your name on them.

Towards the end of the game, when it starts getting more bizarre, is when Raiden finally asserts his difference from Snake. You could also say it's when MGS2 asserts its difference from all the callbacks to MGS1. Raiden's use of a sword also represents this, a weapon that Snake has never used. At this point too, the facade also breaks down. The Colonel starts freaking out, as Raiden is breaking free from the recreation and the game is breaking free of the shackles of being a sequel. He, and the player wanted to believe it was the real Roy Campbell, since that was 'MGS1' in their eyes. The recreation/game/Patriot AI doesn't like that everything is not going as it should and it starts freaking out and getting weirder, such as the locations being named from the actual body parts.

Even with all these deviations, the final nail in the coffin is Solid Snake himself arriving, fully distinct from Raiden. Raiden is a man running with a sword, a weapon unique to him from Snake, whilst Snake is as he is in the player/Raidens memory. Raiden's fully differentiated himself and MGS2 is no longer a retread of MGS1, you're now playing the game differently.

The game finally sheds MGS1 after this when Liquid takes over Ocelot, taking the RAY and legging it, with Snake in hot pursuit, just leaving Solidus and Raiden together, everyone from the prior game dead or having left. And at the end of the game, when you no longer have control, Raiden sheds his Dog tags with you on, moving on from both the game and MGS1.

tldr MGS2 is set up to be a by the numbers sequel, but it and Raiden manage to break free of being just rehashes of their prior incarnation and make something unique for themself.

Well that's a very interesting take on it, thanks for sharing

Is that perhaps why Raiden appears androgynous? That way the player (male or female) can imprint themselves onto the character?

Preezy wrote:

FudgeDiver wrote:

basically, to give you a rundown on why it becoming bizarre at the end is the reason the game is so good.

it opens with your expectations of Metal Gear Solid, you playing as Snake doing things like in MGS1, which is what the first part of the ruse is. But then part 2 comes, which is meant to be a recreation of the shadow moses incident, with Raiden playing the part of Snake, much like what is expected for a sequel.

But it's not, Raiden isn't Snake. But he plays almost exactly the same and fills the same role. But they're not the same. Even similar things aren't the same, like you fighting a Harrier and not a Hind. The fantastical is increased further, with the shamans and psychics of MGS1 replaced with a literal vampire and a woman who's so lucky she cannot be hurt (Which the game tries subverting, but still gives the whiff of it being there). Notably, Vamp himself is a callback to Liquid Snake never strawberry floating dying.

This recreation could be called as an attempt to create an in universe sequel, but it's not quite right, there's things missing and not right. The foremost being the protagonist for part 2 onwards, Raiden. He's set up as the protagonist replacing the 'dead' Snake, and his actor in the recreation. However, despite Raiden himself getting into the Snake role (even taking his name for a short while), he's definitely not Snake. He's a stand in for the player themself, a person living vicariously through videogames, pretending they're someone they're not. In Raiden's case, he thinks of himself as a legendary soldier, despite his only experience being VR, essentially videogames. Both Raiden and Player had fond memories of experiencing Shadow Moses themselves, despite not being there, they felt like they were. But, Raiden is controlled by the player and controlled to his whims, right down to his dogtags having your name on them.

Towards the end of the game, when it starts getting more bizarre, is when Raiden finally asserts his difference from Snake. You could also say it's when MGS2 asserts its difference from all the callbacks to MGS1. Raiden's use of a sword also represents this, a weapon that Snake has never used. At this point too, the facade also breaks down. The Colonel starts freaking out, as Raiden is breaking free from the recreation and the game is breaking free of the shackles of being a sequel. He, and the player wanted to believe it was the real Roy Campbell, since that was 'MGS1' in their eyes. The recreation/game/Patriot AI doesn't like that everything is not going as it should and it starts freaking out and getting weirder, such as the locations being named from the actual body parts.

Even with all these deviations, the final nail in the coffin is Solid Snake himself arriving, fully distinct from Raiden. Raiden is a man running with a sword, a weapon unique to him from Snake, whilst Snake is as he is in the player/Raidens memory. Raiden's fully differentiated himself and MGS2 is no longer a retread of MGS1, you're now playing the game differently.

The game finally sheds MGS1 after this when Liquid takes over Ocelot, taking the RAY and legging it, with Snake in hot pursuit, just leaving Solidus and Raiden together, everyone from the prior game dead or having left. And at the end of the game, when you no longer have control, Raiden sheds his Dog tags with you on, moving on from both the game and MGS1.

tldr MGS2 is set up to be a by the numbers sequel, but it and Raiden manage to break free of being just rehashes of their prior incarnation and make something unique for themself.

Well that's a very interesting take on it, thanks for sharing

Is that perhaps why Raiden appears androgynous? That way the player (male or female) can imprint themselves onto the character?

Or maybe it is a coincidence. Kojima has insisted since the game's release that Raiden was designed to appeal to women as a kind of heartthrob, which I've never understood in a game whose protagonist was already this guy.

Minoru wrote:I gave up on Danganronpa. It seemed in theory like the kind of game I'd like and I kept hearing good things, but all of the characters were really boring stereotype/cliches with no interesting features.

Frank wrote:

Danganronpa is really good You should stick with it.

FudgeDiver wrote:basically, to give you a rundown on why it becoming bizarre at the end is the reason the game is so good.

it opens with your expectations of Metal Gear Solid, you playing as Snake doing things like in MGS1, which is what the first part of the ruse is. But then part 2 comes, which is meant to be a recreation of the shadow moses incident, with Raiden playing the part of Snake, much like what is expected for a sequel.

But it's not, Raiden isn't Snake. But he plays almost exactly the same and fills the same role. But they're not the same. Even similar things aren't the same, like you fighting a Harrier and not a Hind. The fantastical is increased further, with the shamans and psychics of MGS1 replaced with a literal vampire and a woman who's so lucky she cannot be hurt (Which the game tries subverting, but still gives the whiff of it being there). Notably, Vamp himself is a callback to Liquid Snake never strawberry floating dying.

This recreation could be called as an attempt to create an in universe sequel, but it's not quite right, there's things missing and not right. The foremost being the protagonist for part 2 onwards, Raiden. He's set up as the protagonist replacing the 'dead' Snake, and his actor in the recreation. However, despite Raiden himself getting into the Snake role (even taking his name for a short while), he's definitely not Snake. He's a stand in for the player themself, a person living vicariously through videogames, pretending they're someone they're not. In Raiden's case, he thinks of himself as a legendary soldier, despite his only experience being VR, essentially videogames. Both Raiden and Player had fond memories of experiencing Shadow Moses themselves, despite not being there, they felt like they were. But, Raiden is controlled by the player and controlled to his whims, right down to his dogtags having your name on them.

Towards the end of the game, when it starts getting more bizarre, is when Raiden finally asserts his difference from Snake. You could also say it's when MGS2 asserts its difference from all the callbacks to MGS1. Raiden's use of a sword also represents this, a weapon that Snake has never used. At this point too, the facade also breaks down. The Colonel starts freaking out, as Raiden is breaking free from the recreation and the game is breaking free of the shackles of being a sequel. He, and the player wanted to believe it was the real Roy Campbell, since that was 'MGS1' in their eyes. The recreation/game/Patriot AI doesn't like that everything is not going as it should and it starts freaking out and getting weirder, such as the locations being named from the actual body parts.

Even with all these deviations, the final nail in the coffin is Solid Snake himself arriving, fully distinct from Raiden. Raiden is a man running with a sword, a weapon unique to him from Snake, whilst Snake is as he is in the player/Raidens memory. Raiden's fully differentiated himself and MGS2 is no longer a retread of MGS1, you're now playing the game differently.

The game finally sheds MGS1 after this when Liquid takes over Ocelot, taking the RAY and legging it, with Snake in hot pursuit, just leaving Solidus and Raiden together, everyone from the prior game dead or having left. And at the end of the game, when you no longer have control, Raiden sheds his Dog tags with you on, moving on from both the game and MGS1.

tldr MGS2 is set up to be a by the numbers sequel, but it and Raiden manage to break free of being just rehashes of their prior incarnation and make something unique for themself.

Hime wrote:Dishonoured 2

There is so much to like about this game, it looks incredible, the writing is good, the open areas are exeptional but I've started to find the trial and error gameplay, piss poor melee combat and awful/lack of map has really started to grate. I love this type of game, loved the first and started loving this but I haven't enjoyed any of the proper 'levels'. This game has introduced an awful new enemy type in the clockwork soldiers and I'm on level 8 which is littered with them and one hit kill machines, one of which has completely hindered my progressed with the only way to carry on to try and find an underground passage with only an onscreen marker. I'm so close to the end that I wanted try smash through to the completion but after working my way through the mansion only to randomly get killed and find the game hasn't saved any of my progressed, I've decided it's time to call it a day.

Squinty wrote:I found the game way harder than the original one. I have no idea how anyone could do a stealth run in it.

_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ wrote:downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.

Death's Head wrote:

_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ wrote:downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.

Tell us more about how it is not a good game.