The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheats!

Anything to do with games at all.
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:07 pm

That's not a growth wrote:Taff, what was your opinion on the first one?


Loved it. Teared up at the end of the intro, was totally captivated by the world and characters. Great ending too. However I've despised all the marketing around the second one. I thought it was exploitative, manipulative and lingered excessively on pain and suffering for no real reason other than mature = grim.

So we'll see. I've managed to avoid all spoilers so I'm pretty excited.

---------------------------
Games wot I worked on:
Night Call: Out now!
Rip Them Off: Out now!
Chinatown Detective Agency: 2021!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Fade
Member
Joined in 2011
Location: San Junipero

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Fade » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:53 pm

I'm looking forward to your reaction to the first few hours :lol:

Image

SW-0093-4365-9039
User avatar
Dual
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Dual » Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:53 pm

I've not played this but yikes at taf playing it. Just yikes.

User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by OrangeRKN » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:13 pm

I envy anyone getting to play this through for the first time

Image
Image
orkn.uk - SW-6533-2461-3235 - @OrangeRakoon - ACNH Howdyfern
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:17 pm

What I'm expecting going off the marketing:

- Bury Your Gays tropes all over the shop, ie "Yes we have gay characters, YES we will immediately kill and or hurt one of them for cheap emotional impact"
- Lots of torture scenes where the camera lingers on painful stuff happening. Because as previously mentioned mature = grim
- I've heard there's a transgender character so I'm expecting them to be immediately deadnamed and a bunch of hamhanded metaphors linking transgenderism to all sorts of trauma.
- Perhaps a black person?
- Lots of women getting hurt.
- Pretty, pretty graphics

No one tell me if I'm right

---------------------------
Games wot I worked on:
Night Call: Out now!
Rip Them Off: Out now!
Chinatown Detective Agency: 2021!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Mafro
Moderator
Joined in 2008
AKA: DAT MAF
Contact:

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Mafro » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:What I'm expecting going off the marketing:

- Bury Your Gays tropes all over the shop, ie "Yes we have gay characters, YES we will immediately kill and or hurt one of them for cheap emotional impact"
- Lots of torture scenes where the camera lingers on painful stuff happening. Because as previously mentioned mature = grim
- I've heard there's a transgender character so I'm expecting them to be immediately deadnamed and a bunch of hamhanded metaphors linking transgenderism to all sorts of trauma.
- Perhaps a black person?
- Lots of women getting hurt.
- Pretty, pretty graphics

No one tell me if I'm right

Pay close attention to how every black character is used.

HSH28 wrote:Assmung you ever get one that is.

Blog | Twitter
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:39 pm

Yeah, I almost added "...and they are immediately killed off in some tragic manner."

We'll see.

---------------------------
Games wot I worked on:
Night Call: Out now!
Rip Them Off: Out now!
Chinatown Detective Agency: 2021!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Fade
Member
Joined in 2011
Location: San Junipero

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Fade » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:48 pm

Mafro wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:What I'm expecting going off the marketing:

- Bury Your Gays tropes all over the shop, ie "Yes we have gay characters, YES we will immediately kill and or hurt one of them for cheap emotional impact"
- Lots of torture scenes where the camera lingers on painful stuff happening. Because as previously mentioned mature = grim
- I've heard there's a transgender character so I'm expecting them to be immediately deadnamed and a bunch of hamhanded metaphors linking transgenderism to all sorts of trauma.
- Perhaps a black person?
- Lots of women getting hurt.
- Pretty, pretty graphics

No one tell me if I'm right

Pay close attention to how every black character is used.

I never noticed anything particularly obtuse, but they sure do love only writing white people as main characters. What did you notice?

At least hopefully we'll have Lev going forward.

Image

SW-0093-4365-9039
User avatar
Captain Kinopio
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Herbi
Location: The Observatory

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Captain Kinopio » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:22 pm

How is every black person used?

And do you guys ever find it exhausting trying to find the hidden agenda in every piece of fiction?

User avatar
jiggles
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: pyxl-8

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by jiggles » Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:43 pm

Captain Kinopio wrote:How is every black person used?

And do you guys ever find it exhausting trying to find the hidden agenda in every piece of fiction?


I mean, I love the series to death, but

every black character, every last one, is killed off, and most times for the sake of empowerment or character development of the player characters (who are exclusively white).

And the use of the monstrously huge black “brute” as Abby’s “final boss” before the two stories converge (who has no character in the game, just pops up at the end) plays in to a disgusting stereotype that the scariest/most dangerous thing to white women is a big black man


Anyway, I’m looking forward to Taf’s reaction to the rest of it.

Predictions:
- Pleasantly surprised by total absence of the Bury Your Gays trope. Complains about misleading marketing campaign selling the game on the trope
- Positive on Abby’s design
- mixed on lev. Mostly decent trans depiction, but falls short of handling it as well as he would have done
- rightly calls out the shitty handling of black characters
- Marvels at the quality of the game but wrings hands at human cost of crunch needed to make a game to this standard
- Dislikes Ellie’s arc. Thinks the game is way too long. Hates everything from the farm onwards. Is appalled that the idyllic life for a queer couple is picturesque conservative Americana

Streaming: Twitch | Tweeting: Twitter
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:25 pm

Update: installed and ready but wife refuses to stop watching The Next Generation.

Captain Kinopio wrote:How is every black person used?

And do you guys ever find it exhausting trying to find the hidden agenda in every piece of fiction?


It's less "trying to find" and more "recognising". No art is made in a vacuum. And I find it fascinating, not tiring.

---------------------------
Games wot I worked on:
Night Call: Out now!
Rip Them Off: Out now!
Chinatown Detective Agency: 2021!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Fade
Member
Joined in 2011
Location: San Junipero

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Fade » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:54 pm

jiggles wrote:
Captain Kinopio wrote:How is every black person used?

And do you guys ever find it exhausting trying to find the hidden agenda in every piece of fiction?


I mean, I love the series to death, but

every black character, every last one, is killed off, and most times for the sake of empowerment or character development of the player characters (who are exclusively white).

And the use of the monstrously huge black “brute” as Abby’s “final boss” before the two stories converge (who has no character in the game, just pops up at the end) plays in to a disgusting stereotype that the scariest/most dangerous thing to white women is a big black man



I get that, and I'd make more of a fuss about it if this weren't Last of Us.

Literally everyone you meet dies, I mean here's a list off the top of my head

LOU1: Riley, Robert, Tess, (Possibly Bill), Henry, Sam, David, Marlene

LOU2: Joel, Jessie, all 5/6 of Abby's friends, Isaac, Yara, Lev's mom

The only characters that usually survive are the ones who don't come on your adventure with you or heavily plot reliant characters. It's not like they just kill all the black characters and nobody else, literally everyone dies.

Also, as for the black man I 100% get where you're coming from but there's that big hammer lady that acts as a 'boss' earlier on who they use in a similar manner. Taken in context of Ellie and Abby's interactions with other black male characters so think it's a bit silly to levy that kind of accusation at the game.


Having said that they REALLY need to make more of an effort to write more black characters who aren't just used as plot devices.

Image

SW-0093-4365-9039
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Tafdolphin » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:47 pm

Welp, made it to the weed cutscene and so far I'm thoroughly enjoying it. The interplay between Dina and Ellie is really well done, like, really well done, and the small snippets of combat have been fun. First time I shot a pistol it made me jump as gooseberry fool it's loud (was wearing headphones by that point) and firing feels like a momentous thing at the moment, as well as a last resort.

The facial animations are something else too.

So yeah. A good start

---------------------------
Games wot I worked on:
Night Call: Out now!
Rip Them Off: Out now!
Chinatown Detective Agency: 2021!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
jiggles
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: pyxl-8

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by jiggles » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:59 pm

Fade, I think that’s being dismissive.

The fact that *none* of the black characters who have lines survive any of the THREE titles is not offset by “everyone dies” (they don’t) or “people of all races die”.

And neither does having fought the Trunchbull earlier excuse the climactic encounter of the war on the island being “ok, that, but now it’s a black guy” who must be honestly about 8 feet tall and you pass it by brutally and slowly slicing up his face with a sickle in vivid detail vs when you fought the white one who you punched until you crushed her head with her hammer, off-screen, in a fraction of the time.

The encounter with the king of the brutes (iirc, the only black brute in the game, naturally) isn’t just you winning by overpowering him like the other brutes, it’s a drawn out mutilation.


And I say this as someone who didn’t cop to this as I was playing through it. I had it pointed out after the fact and even though I think the game is outstanding, it’s still strawberry floated up. This isn’t happenstance, the world and characters are all invented to be as they are. Even if it’s not done with malicious intent, but rather a subconscious prejudice they aren’t aware they’re expressing by just designing the characters and scripting the events “like they pictured in their head”, the fact that they’re not being questioned on this trend internally is cause for concern. Clearly Naughty Dog need more black voices in their ear, because as the titles roll out, the characterisation of this situation evolves from coincidence to trend to behaviour.

Streaming: Twitch | Tweeting: Twitter
User avatar
Denster
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Denster » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:32 pm

Oh god.

Get the kite, Beavis.
User avatar
Denster
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Denster » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:41 pm

It was much simpler when Taf just assumed hed hate it.

Get the kite, Beavis.
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Tafdolphin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:00 pm

Things kicking up a notch. Big chase, golf club to head.

To be honest, I reckon I know the basic outline of how the story's gonna go down.

Abby kills/maims Joel (her group is the Fireflies, Joel probs killed her mother or something), Ellie swears revenge, there's a religious fanatic group in there somewhere so I assume they become a bigger bad, Ellie and Abby are forced together (I assume Dina dies at some point, probably killed by the religious nuts) and in the end either Ellie dies to save Abby or vice versa proving that yes, even you can overcome HATE


I'll come back to this after I'm done, see how close I was. NO ONE TELL ME!

Again, I'm really enjoying it so far.

---------------------------
Games wot I worked on:
Night Call: Out now!
Rip Them Off: Out now!
Chinatown Detective Agency: 2021!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by OrangeRKN » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:09 pm

This was an enjoyable prediction to read

Image
Image
orkn.uk - SW-6533-2461-3235 - @OrangeRakoon - ACNH Howdyfern
User avatar
Mafro
Moderator
Joined in 2008
AKA: DAT MAF
Contact:

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by Mafro » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:18 pm

jiggles wrote:Fade, I think that’s being dismissive.

The fact that *none* of the black characters who have lines survive any of the THREE titles is not offset by “everyone dies” (they don’t) or “people of all races die”.

And neither does having fought the Trunchbull earlier excuse the climactic encounter of the war on the island being “ok, that, but now it’s a black guy” who must be honestly about 8 feet tall and you pass it by brutally and slowly slicing up his face with a sickle in vivid detail vs when you fought the white one who you punched until you crushed her head with her hammer, off-screen, in a fraction of the time.

The encounter with the king of the brutes (iirc, the only black brute in the game, naturally) isn’t just you winning by overpowering him like the other brutes, it’s a drawn out mutilation.


And I say this as someone who didn’t cop to this as I was playing through it. I had it pointed out after the fact and even though I think the game is outstanding, it’s still strawberry floated up. This isn’t happenstance, the world and characters are all invented to be as they are. Even if it’s not done with malicious intent, but rather a subconscious prejudice they aren’t aware they’re expressing by just designing the characters and scripting the events “like they pictured in their head”, the fact that they’re not being questioned on this trend internally is cause for concern. Clearly Naughty Dog need more black voices in their ear, because as the titles roll out, the characterisation of this situation evolves from coincidence to trend to behaviour.

I'm still amazed Nadine survived Uncharted 4.

HSH28 wrote:Assmung you ever get one that is.

Blog | Twitter
User avatar
jiggles
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: pyxl-8

PostRe: The Last of Us II - Update to add lots of stuff, inc. Grounded mode, perma death and gameplayer modifiers. And cheat
by jiggles » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:18 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:This was an enjoyable prediction to read

:lol:

Streaming: Twitch | Tweeting: Twitter

Return to “Games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Christopher, Cuttooth, Drej, Finiarél, Finish.Last, kazanova_Frankenstein, Samuel_1, Somebody Else's Problem and 208 guests