The Last of Us II - 60 fps PS5 patch out now

The thing is yes the first game does have lots of violence and gore but that wasn't the selling point. The selling point (for me anyway) was the story and the gameplay.

The focus on ultra violence just seems to miss the point.

Gemini73

Tafdolphin wrote:This trailer was 5 minutes of women being tortured.

...at the orders of another woman.

...who was then killed, along with her subservient male colleague...by another woman.

Lord have mercy!!!

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It was a trailer for a very high profile game so it had to grab viewers attention - showing a slower paced conversation wouldn't have the same effect. I don't think there's any reason to be worried, it's still Neil Druckman writing it - the story will be at the core of this.

Hi everyone! So it looks like some people disagreed with my statement that the trailer is 5 minutes of women being tortured. That's cool! Here's the trailer itself again so those people can actually watch it.

Looks like I was wrong, it's over 6 minutes of women being tortured. Sorry about that.

Gemini73

Great trailer.

Good to watch it again while still having a clear understanding of the dark, cruel world TLoU is set in.

Good stuff buddy! I'm glad you enjoyed 6 minutes of women being tortured!

Gemini73

Tafdolphin wrote:Good stuff buddy! I'm glad you enjoyed 6 minutes of women being tortured!

Taf.

It’s weird how the idea of a women being tortured is still seen as worse for some people than a man being tortured. “5 minutes of torture!” seems to not shock people enough, it has to be “5 minutes of WOMEN, PRETTY DELICATE LITTLE FLOWERS THAT THEY ARE, being tortured! How can their precious little ovaries cope with it?”.

Gemini73

Moggy wrote:It’s weird how the idea of a women being tortured is still seen as worse for some people than a man being tortured. “5 minutes of torture!” seems to not shock people enough, it has to be “5 minutes of WOMEN, PRETTY DELICATE LITTLE FLOWERS THAT THEY ARE, being tortured! How can their precious little ovaries cope with it?”.

All I saw was a group of human beings desperately trying to survive, and overcome in this instance, the harsh realities of a cold, brutal, post apocalyptic future.

Bloody damn good trailer as well. Beautifully done and a good sign of the kind of quality we can expect to see in the full game. ND no doubt have another winner on their hands.

Last edited by Tafdolphin on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

For the record here, I hated the trailer but am still looking forward to the game. As Mafro pointed out on twitter, ND stoked the same controversy with the original game's gameplay reveal. I think that's different to this, that footage was gameplay, it wasn't lingering, it wasn't so proud of its violence, but I get that this is a violent game world.

What gets me, and this is going back to my point in the sexism in games thread, is that this was a curated trailer. At some point someone, likely Neil Druckman, sat down and made the decision that the game's second reveal to the world would revolve around violence against women. This appears mainly to have been a decision to create discussions like this due to shock value. There's very little else in this trailer except that shock value. From a dev point of view it's perfect: it gets people talking about the game while requiring very little to no revelations. From a narrative point of view it's lazy, and makes for a poor trailer that's empty at its core.

We all know the game is going to be violent, we all know the game is going to be grim, but this trailer doesn't merely repeat these facts, it revels in them.

(On a side note I definitely groaned when the executioner started going on about apostates and religion. I mean really? We're still trotting that post-apocalyptic trope out in 2017?)

EDIT:

Moggy wrote:It’s weird how the idea of a women being tortured is still seen as worse for some people than a man being tortured. “5 minutes of torture!” seems to not shock people enough, it has to be “5 minutes of WOMEN, PRETTY DELICATE LITTLE FLOWERS THAT THEY ARE, being tortured! How can their precious little ovaries cope with it?”.

I'm more than happy to go into the problems surrounding the conflation of 'equality' and 'equity' if you like? The two aren't the same and that's something you've touched on here.

Gemini73

What's lazy, Taf, is your wanting to see the trailer as anything other than a purposely designed attack on women. Yes it's shocking, and would have still been shocking had all the protagonists been male, however because it's women you think there's some ulterior agenda going on when there really, quite clearly, isn't.

I realise, again thanks to the sexism in gaming thread, that my point of view is not going to resonate with some of you. That's fine. What I don't care for is people ignoring the points I've made and boiling them down to 'Taf says it's an attack in women'. I have my opinions of why the trailer is like it is and have expressed these, I think quite clearly. I certainly haven't been lazy about it.

Tafdolphin wrote:At some point someone, likely Neil Druckman, sat down and made the decision that the game's second reveal to the world would revolve around violence against women.

Interesting that you think it must have been him and not the games co-writer Halley Gross...

Moggy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:At some point someone, likely Neil Druckman, sat down and made the decision that the game's second reveal to the world would revolve around violence against women.

Interesting that you think it must have been him and not the games co-writer Halley Gross...

Is it? He is the directo...

Ah. I see what you tried to do there. Sneaky sneaky! You're right though, I am a massive misogynist.

Tafdolphin wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:At some point someone, likely Neil Druckman, sat down and made the decision that the game's second reveal to the world would revolve around violence against women.

Interesting that you think it must have been him and not the games co-writer Halley Gross...

Is it? He is the directo...

Ah. I see what you tried to do there. Sneaky sneaky! You're right though, I am a massive misogynist.

I am not saying you are a massive misogynist, you obviously are not.

But your argument here was “it’s 5 minutes of violence against women”. When the game is co-written by a woman.

Why is it important to highlight that the person being tortured is a woman? Would it be better if it was a man being tortured? Were you bothered by the torture scene in GTA:V?

I thought it was ok. I didn't like the hammer blows to the arm, but rest was justifiable.

Backs up the theme from the first game (and Walking Dead, and the whole genre now) that the other humans are arguably more of a threat than the monsters.

I looked up conflating 'equality' and 'equity' and I think the argument is that because women start from a disadvantaged position to begin with, their being tortured is not the same as men being tortured.

But hey, it's good to see Ellie kept up with her bow practice.

Taf what did you think of the Detroit trailer?

Moggy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:At some point someone, likely Neil Druckman, sat down and made the decision that the game's second reveal to the world would revolve around violence against women.

Interesting that you think it must have been him and not the games co-writer Halley Gross...

Is it? He is the directo...

Ah. I see what you tried to do there. Sneaky sneaky! You're right though, I am a massive misogynist.

I am not saying you are a massive misogynist, you obviously are not.

But your argument here was “it’s 5 minutes of violence against women”. When the game is co-written by a woman.

Why is it important to highlight that the person being tortured is a woman? Would it be better if it was a man being tortured? Were you bothered by the torture scene in GTA:V?

I have a long-ass response to this that I'll post later once I'm free.

The Last of Us II - 60 fps PS5 patch out now

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