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Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:19 am
by Tafdolphin
Moggy wrote:Tafdolphin wrote:Moggy wrote:Tafdolphin wrote:At some point someone, likely Neil Druckman, sat down and made the decision that the game's second reveal to the world would revolve around violence against women.
Interesting that you think it must have been him and not the games co-writer Halley Gross...
Is it? He is the directo...
Ah. I see what you tried to do there. Sneaky sneaky! You're right though, I am a massive misogynist.
I am not saying you are a massive misogynist, you obviously are not.
But your argument here was “it’s 5 minutes of violence against women”. When the game is co-written by a woman.
Why is it important to highlight that the person being tortured is a woman? Would it be better if it was a man being tortured? Were you bothered by the torture scene in GTA:V?
I have a long-ass response to this that I'll post later once I'm free.
EDIT:
Saint of Killers wrote:I looked up conflating 'equality' and 'equity' and I think the argument is that because women start from a disadvantaged position to begin with, their being tortured is not the same as men being tortured.
But hey, it's good to see Ellie kept up with her bow practice.
And strawberry float. SoK has summarised my long-ass response in one sentence.
(Also that wasn't Ellie firing the arrows, it was the kid with the bow)
the eponymous bollock wrote:Taf what did you think of the Detroit trailer?
strawberry floating terrible.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:21 am
by Saint of Killers
Tafdolphin wrote:(Also that wasn't Ellie firing the arrows, it was the kid with the bow)
Clearly left a lasting impression on me.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:36 am
by 7256930752
So the only way to have equality is with positive sexism to even things out?
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 am
by OrangeRKN
More men died in the trailer than women #facts
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 am
by Tafdolphin
Nvm
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:41 am
by Gemini73
Does anyone know how long after the first outing the sequel is set?
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:57 am
by jiggles
Saint of Killers wrote:I looked up conflating 'equality' and 'equity' and I think the argument is that because women start from a disadvantaged position to begin with, their being tortured is not the same as men being tortured.
Is this true in The Last of Us, though? It's a post-apocalyptic game in which modern society no longer exists. Every female character after the fall in the series, every last one, has shown themselves to be either in a position of power or extremely capable. The constant parallels between Ellie and Sarah, with Joel commenting how alike they are, is making the point that Sarah's perceived "weakness" isn't because of the person she is, but rather as a product of a societal norm that no longer exists.
Pressing reset to "reroll" gender roles is a common narrative device to hammer home the point that the only reason they are the way they are today is because as a society we chose them that way. The women in our world can be equal to men, if we, as a society, just choose to have it that way.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:14 am
by Fade
jiggles wrote:Saint of Killers wrote:I looked up conflating 'equality' and 'equity' and I think the argument is that because women start from a disadvantaged position to begin with, their being tortured is not the same as men being tortured.
Is this true in The Last of Us, though? It's a post-apocalyptic game in which modern society no longer exists. Every female character after the fall in the series, every last one, has shown themselves to be either in a position of power or extremely capable. The constant parallels between Ellie and Sarah, with Joel commenting how alike they are, is making the point that Sarah's perceived "weakness" isn't because of the person she is, but rather as a product of a societal norm that no longer exists.
Exactly.
Also, in the real world men are tortured and killed a lot lot more than women are.
I'm not trying to start a gender politics discussion, but bringing gender into this game is stupid.
The 3 main characters in the trailer were women. And they were all shown in leadership positions.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:20 am
by Tafdolphin
Those gfx though eh?
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:27 am
by Knoyleo
Fade wrote:The 3 main characters in the trailer were women. And they were all shown in leadership positions.
Being hanged and having your arm broken with a hammer are leadership positions?
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:29 am
by Moggy
Knoyleo wrote:Fade wrote:The 3 main characters in the trailer were women. And they were all shown in leadership positions.
Being hanged and having your arm broken with a hammer are leadership positions?
Some people pay a lot of money to have those sorts of things done to them.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:34 am
by Venom
Tafdolphin wrote:Saint of Killers wrote:I looked up conflating 'equality' and 'equity' and I think the argument is that because women start from a disadvantaged position to begin with, their being tortured is not the same as men being tortured.
But hey, it's good to see Ellie kept up with her bow practice.
And strawberry float. SoK has summarised my long-ass response in one sentence.
(Also that wasn't Ellie firing the arrows, it was the kid with the bow)
Taf is right Saint, that's a good point succinctly made! Which is relevant to the wider discussion of violence towards women from men or to 'satisfy men.' However, if you look at the fictional world of The Last of Us' reality, I don't think it should artificially have an awareness of this discussion (by changing the stories or situations of the characters, or switching which sex is the victim of which sex). Nor should the Naughty Dog writers change its reality to appease the people in the real world who care about social injustice and don't want it depicted in a game.
It makes me think of the TV audience who watch a character in EastEnders suffer racist verbal abuse, and they write into the BBC or complain to Ofcom that the BBC is being racist! They are upset because racism is bad and they don't want to see it in their TV programmes! Not realising that omitting this topic is hiding the truth of such social abuse. Not realising that depicting injustice and equality is an honest way of reflecting problems of the real world which can instigate conversation about the issues amongst the audience and be a harbinger of real, actual, meaningful change that can make society better. That's all any of us can hope for, to make the world a better place.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:39 am
by jiggles
Anyone ever have someone agree with your point, then sprinkle it with a take so bad you have to log out?
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:41 am
by Tafdolphin
jiggles wrote:Anyone ever have someone agree with your point, then sprinkle it with a take so bad you have to log out?
Often
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:44 am
by Saint of Killers
Ta for posting it, btw. And Venom, too.
Just to be clear, what I wrote is what I believed the argument re what Moggy asked would be. It's not necessarily what I actually believe.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:19 am
by KjGarly
After reading the last couple of pages and finally getting round to watching the trailer myself all I have to say is your all a bunch of strawberry floating wet blankets
Trailer was fine, the world was already a strawberry floated up place in the first game (Soldier gunning down Joel and his daughter during the start of the outbreak - David's group hunting you down throughout the game, mainly because you've killed a shitload of his people but hey, he wanted to strawberry floating eat a kid, never mind the countless men, women and children he's already noshed on!) so this is what? 5 - 10 years after? Not really kept up as I want to go in unspoiled but I'm sort of guessing the world is even more strawberry floated up by this point.
Tortured
lynched and poked with the tip of a knife and another getting her arm broke with a hammer, the way people have acted in here I was expecting a whole strawberry floating village of women being killed and tortured
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:26 am
by Victor Mildew
Moggy wrote:Knoyleo wrote:Fade wrote:The 3 main characters in the trailer were women. And they were all shown in leadership positions.
Being hanged and having your arm broken with a hammer are leadership positions?
Some people pay a lot of money to have those sorts of things done to them.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:10 pm
by Moggy
KjGarly wrote:After reading the last couple of pages and finally getting round to watching the trailer myself all I have to say is your all a bunch of strawberry floating wet blankets
If you think that we are all wet blankets then I don’t think you did read the last couple of pages.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:34 pm
by KjGarly
Moggy wrote:KjGarly wrote:After reading the last couple of pages and finally getting round to watching the trailer myself all I have to say is your all a bunch of strawberry floating wet blankets
If you think that we are all wet blankets then I don’t think you did read the last couple of pages.
My apologies.
*The select few who took offence by the trailer and were upset by 2 split arses getting the beat down orchestrated by another split arse who later gets a face full of hammer from one of the tortured split arse because, you know, women shouldn't be leading groups of men ordering them to maim other women. They should be in the kitchen, doing the cleaning and sorting out a glass of chocolate milk for the hard working man after a bit of man on man maiming and torture. Your more fanny than fanny!
By the way I think it's Ellie getting hung. Wasn't she a bit on the muscular side in the first trailer when she's sitting there playing the guitar? Just watched first trailer again, not her then.
Re: The Last of Us Part II - Ellie and Joel return - PGW 2017 Trailer
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:36 pm
by OrangeRKN
She looked nothing like Ellie, that is not Ellie